Aged Australian Top Minister Malcolm Turnbull joins Nicolle Wallace

Our conversation it is a privilege to get to speak to the a for mention former prime minister Malcolm turull he served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2015 to 2018 thank you so much for being with us your comments were heard around the world I woke up to them on Morning Joe and I've seen them everywhere well well look it's a I think.

It's a very important point to make uh the the the Trump fascination with Putin is is a very creepy one and and it was palpable I mean people people who have been with Trump and Putin and indeed people who saw him with Putin at that Helsinki conference will see the same thing uh he he has a fascination with Putin he's in awe of Putin probably.

Admires him probably wishes he could be as omnipotent uh in the America as Putin is in Russia but uh it's a very it's very disconcerting when you see the leader of the Free World uh being so interested in tyrants and of course it's not just Putin I mean look at his Bromance with Kim Jong-un how how improbable was that you know effectively.

Exchanging what I think he described as love letters I think it is alleged to be among the classified things he took with him to Mar Lago to hang on to them and I understand he has framed pictures of himself with Kim Jong-un which is it's it's it's so bizarre it sometimes falls off the radar of the things we talk about but it should be top of mind.

Um I I want to ask you what the conversation was among world leaders when you saw Trump fawn over Putin and Kim Jong-un it look this was particularly the case at the Hamburg G20 in 2017 it was very disconcerting I mean you saw on the one hand uh Trump's uh very very apparent distaste for Angela.

Merkel the chancellor you know effectively the prime minister of Germany on the other hand his fascination with Putin and it it was an extraordinary contrast uh so the you know his I mean his instincts are not Democratic I mean I mean TR and again he says the quiet part out loud as you said in your introduction you know we don't.

Have to you know speculate or psychoanalyze Donald Trump he says all this stuff um he is not a conservative you know people people often talk about conservative conservatism and so forth Trump's not a conservative conservatives believe in the rule of law they defend established institutions you know they they they are not conservatives do not.

Embrace radical change they want change to be incremental and gradual uh Trump is determined to use every lever he can get and he says he will do that to maximize his power and of course uh you know take action against his enemies I mean didn't he say at a bit of public speech I will be your retribution well you know that's hardly the uh that's.

Hardly the language of someone who wants to bring everybody together you see I've always believed the the role of a national leader is to unite their Nation their country their community to bring people together now what Trump does and what and and of course Victor Orban who is also fascinated with as you said does.

The same thing in Hungary what he does what his goal is is to divide take advantage of those divisions and then use that to you know rile up uh his supporters you know so that he can get enough support to win and it's this you know this is supported by the right media in America particularly Fox News what what I call Ang attainment uh and.

It you know it's it's doing unbelievable damage to your country I mean you live there you know what it's like the problem for the rest of us we all have we all have a stake in your election but we don't have a say in it let me ask you this I mean America benefits from intelligence sharing agreements with with countries like yours five eyes I'll.

Share um threat information and so the intelligence product that an American president sees may be a compilation of things that intelligence professionals from Myriad Nations have risked their lives um to present to an American president for policymaking and to protect the country what happens if the.

American president becomes someone who is not a Democratic leader who's someone that is um on their way to being an autocrat could you imagine countries being reluctant to share their intelligence with our country well you well you could uh I think it's uh you know puts enormous stress on relationships uh you know the.

Very good friend of M David Petraeus uh has often observed uh the only thing worse than fighting a war with allies is fighting a war without one without allies so you know the reality is the United States un like China and Russia has a broad range of alliances you know NATO being I guess the largest and most important one um when Trump was.

President in his first term he sought to unsettle all those you know he he pulled out of some very important Global agreements the climate agreement for example he didn't wouldn't participate in the trans-pacific partnership happily Shinzo Abbe and I were able to to keep that going without the US uh but with NATO which is the single most important.

In a military strategic Alliance the American America is part of he is threatened to pull out of that and his fascination with Putin who of course is the adversary uh really puts in question the viability of NATO now this is you know the the problem with that with these Arrangements is that once you undermine.

The trust in them the language doesn't make you don't have to amend Article 5 of the NATO agreement but once people feel that the United States cannot be counted on is not consistent uh and Trump seek Trump actively seeks to undermine that confidence then all sorts of terrible consequences can ensue dictators are.

Encouraged countries that had been allies and friends to the United States say like Japan for example uh moving to the Pacific may decide well the only way we can secure our future is to acquire our own nuclear capability so you you run the risk of nuclear proliferation I mean it is this disruptive uh chaotic approach that.

Trump takes to established alliances is a real threat to the security of the Free World the security of the United States and of course particularly the security of America close friends like like Australia and America has no better friend than Australia but you know we we have to look at it from our point of you is is Trump I mean is Trump's America.

Going Mark two going to be one that we can rely on and the truth is we can't be sure you know we really can't be sure we can cross our fingers and hope that all will go well but you can't be sure because this is a guy who seeks he not a conservative he doesn't believe in continuity he doesn't believe in consistency he's in a sense a sort of a.

A revolutionary that respect but it's a chaotic populist way of disrupting the world and I don't see that there is any satisfactory outcome of that except advantaging our autocratic Rivals are you aware of conversations um among world leaders to figure out what to do to figure out what to do with agreements partnership should Trump win.

A second turn well everybody is hedging I mean when when Trump was elected in 2016 um and know you know I was Prime Minister of Australia I discussed the likely you know the Trump uh presidency with many leaders you know from Xi Jinping to you know a dozen at least a dozen world leaders and the the.

View at that time was oh well he said all these wild things on the campaign Trail but once he gets into office he'll be institutionalized you know it'll become more conventional people used to quote that line of Mario cuos you know we campaign in poetry but we govern in Pros well um as Michelle bashet from Chile.

Said there wasn't a lot of poetry in the 2016 campaign but what uh Trump in office proved was that he was as Wild in office as he was on the campaign Trail so now we're faced with a really unpredictable uh Prospect and a guy who is Hell pent so he says out of his own lips right on you know taking revenge on his opponents and his critics.

And you know it is it's a it's it's it's a it's going to be look there isn't a there isn't a foreign commentator foreign policy commentator in the world it isn't writing up the prospect of a trump presidency as a major risk to Global Security so what I'm saying to you is effectively a penetrating glimpse of the obvious I mean Trump is a threat.

To Global Security because he essentially presents himself as being a threat to the established order former Prime that

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