“Entire Thing Is An Administrative Mess!” Aged Home Arrangement of job Minister SLAMS Rwanda Bill

Uh we continue on that issue of migration and there is I think you know to say there's a pie chart of elements to this to discuss uh is a a bit of an understatement frankly uh this is the subject that simply is not going to go away it is haunting Rishi sunak but Mr sunak is determined to get this thing off the ground and today we learn that.

One Asylum Seeker one failed Asylum Seeker has been deported one man took 3,00 th000 quid is a voluntary scheme this of course isn't part of the bigger scheme where uh there's meant to be well I don't know how many thou tens of thousands of are in the system uh but they're hoping that there'll be at least a few hundred in July can it work can it.

Ever work let's speak to former home office Minister Norman Baker's with us good to see you Norman he good afternoon do you miss the House of Commons because you were there for a long time I was there for 18 years and I don't really miss it um mainly because I think it's become a much more unpleasant Place yeah it's become much more divisive after.

Brexit when people took sides uh and uh a whole lot of Social Media stuff coming MP's way which is which is pretty pretty horrific I didn't really get the idea when I started being an MP people used to write to you on on paper yeah um and it meant that if they wrote something unpleasant they would tear it up and start again whereas now they send you a.

Vile email at Two Minutes to Midnight when they come back from the pub yeah that's true that's true or just splash it all over Twitter or whatever else so yeah CH a changing world that that that doesn't always bode well well what about this uh this Rwanda scheme thing because we've all looked at it and I my argument is look we whether your left wing.

Rightwing somewhere in the middle we all know this problem needs addressing the government have settled on Rwanda they're not the first country in the world to consider such a scheme and there are have been other sort of Third Country schemes out there in in smaller experimental fashion uh but this thing has got failure written all over it.

Right it has and actually just politically just looking at things from that point of view you know for the prime minister to put all the egg in this B ask it and to make it one of his big pledges was actually politically unwise because he can't deliver it um you know you have got a pledge pledge things you can deliver yeah he's going.

To go to the election having a peric victory okay he might get a couple hundred people out there I don't know but I mean he's probably going to less flowing out there then arrive every day across the channel well that's going to be the headline isn't it you can see it now you know we 136 people went but this weekend 500 people arrived and it's a.

Never you're never going to catch that up and he he's he's bag to pass legislation that means people in a particular window of time cannot be accepted as legitimate but can't be deported either so that in no man's land the whole thing is an administrative mess it's often argued or the conservatives certainly argue well okay.

It might not be the best scheme but it's the only one that's out there and K starm for the opposition has nothing he's not really not offered up anything else it's likely I can see him almost day one ripping this up but there does need to be something in its place well there does and there are a whole range of issues that could be tackled which.

Won't solve the entire problem but for example the government scheme with Albania was a good idea a bilateral arrangement to return people to Albania that's working quite well Albania is a safe country and therefore you can do that for safe countries you can't do it as easily with Afghanistan or Iraq for example they more difficult secondly you.

Need to get the home office sorted out there's been a a problem for years and I know there having been there they're very slow at processing people there are people who've been there for in the system for years and haven't been processed they're costing the taxpayer money it's insulting and demeaning for the people involved and it's expensive.

For the taxpayer the British taxpayer they need to be dealt with much more quickly and if you get people having a throughput much more quickly then you can handle that a bunch much you get people out of the country who shouldn't be here and people who are legitimately seeking Asylum because they're end danger of their life being taken away.

Then they can be assimilated quickly start earning and start paying taxes when you were a minister in the home office I remember talking to Jack straw about this when he was home secretary and he said look you know there's a when you sort of day one when you're the the the Home Secretary uh you you're told where everything is and you know that.

Big room over there that big Warehouse is where all the Asylum applications are nobody wants to go in there because it's a never ending it never stops it's an ongoing headache for ministers and uh and civil servants in that department was that was that palpable when you were in it could you sense that you know this is a job that's never going to end well.

I did sense that I me I wasn't the immigration Minister that was actually Mark Harper who the trans in the home office Sor yes but um but I mean obviously it was very yeah it was there and thereabouts all the time in the home office the thing is it's going to get worse it's going to get worse because um we're now seeing climate change kicking.

In we're seeing mass movement from Wars which are taking place the world's more unstable than it's been really for quite some time mass movement of people you look at what's happening in Greece and Italy and the population numbers down there which which is horrendous you know people worry about what's happening here but it's a it's a mere fraction of.

What's happening in southern Europe yeah yeah I was yeah this is not I was saying just before you came in that this is not a British issue this is all over it is Europe at the moment people gravitating to you know the Western world and you look at what's happening with um the the wor in America playing in there with Trump and Biden about the Mexican border.

What about the I mean the Reform Party I'm sure you're a big fan the Reform Party Richard Ty says and he was on question time the other day and he he said it out loud he said look despite what some people tell you there is a way to deal with this you can turn Bo you can literally turn boats around in the middle of the channel David Cameron now.

The foreign secretary said you can't um I I I've never quite understood the legality of this so Mr Ty says yes you can maritime law allows you no I don't think it does and Cameron says it doesn't I think David Cameron's right on that one you can deal with with people as you wish in a sense within your own territorial Waters so there's issue.

About what the french could do within their Six Mile limit or whatever and the British can do similarly in our limit but you know international waters are not the property of Britain or France it's so it's piracy in the high seas to start interfering with the vessels and obviously it can be quite tricky but the argument goes well Australia did it did.

What were able to turn boats around that were attempting to get into Australia well if they were in Australian Waters then they can push them outan Waters but they can't legally as I understand interfere with them in international waters so in terms of where this scheme goes we've got one man who's I'm assuming it's a bloke he's not deported.

Actually you said deported and he's not he's voluntarily G voluntarily got so I mean it's but he was he was a fail to side yes but it's hardly a great success story for the government one person isn't it it's one Norman there was none yesterday today there's one well if you want jubilant about this to buy an arrangement he's got it but so he's.

Laying in a hammocking kagali right now thinking well I'm 3,000 quid better off I'm not quite where I wanted to be but um that I mean that's irrelevant really to the The Wider scheme which the government say come July it will be up and running we know there's going to be legal arguments there will always be legal arguments there be legal arguments.

And the government's talking at best I think five ,000 people in the year which is a a mere fraction of those who come in by by boats but more to the point which people are worried about legal migration you know over a million people are coming in a year legally yeah I mean you know so so the number of people coming in in boats actually is dwarfed.

By those legally coming in yeah I we were we've discussed it a couple of times this week because there is I mean obviously Rich's got another headache which there's a few back benchers who've got the hum there never isn't the to party um and jri and Co and I'm sure sweller is in the mix too uh who who think they can if they could.

Unseat him beforehand one of the policies they want to advance I was quite intrigued that one of them was giving Junior doctors of pay rise they want to do that um and the other was this focus on legal migration which they see is actually the biggest problem they think there's some iffy goings on with some of the people that come here the.

Extended families that sometimes arrive some what you might call Moody universities that suddenly pop up reporting to do all manner of things which invites people here and then they can stay here Etc if we could tackle legal migration their contention is that that's actually a bigger issue well there is some abuse of that certainly.

And I would agree with that but you got to be very very careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water because there are people who come to this country doctors and and education people who are actually very worthwhile to have here and when I was in the home office we had of course unlimited EU migration in both directions out of Britain and.

Into Britain because that was what was were in the EU at the time but um the move from the home office uh was actually to Cal down and those we could stop so they actually stop people coming in who were viable to our economy students who would come and and return to Britain afterwards they were the ones who were stopped not the ones you you.

Want to stop the ones who actually contribute to society so be very careful not to stop the wrong people and further education is I think a 40 billion pound industry in this country so you want to make sure we don't interfere too much with that and if you look around the world to people who who've been leading who are now leading countries many of.

Them been to Britain for education purposes and that's very good for Britain's soft power inde

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