EXCLUSIF – URGENT – « Plus jamais la CEDEAO. Non c’est fini », Capitaine Ibrahim Traoré

Hello and welcome to the AFO media interview which today receives a special guest, Captain Ibrahim Traoré, president of the transition,head of state of Burkina Faso. Good morning Mister President. Good morning Alain. Thank you for having us. Obviously, today January 30, 2024. We want to ask a question since this is the news. Three states, Mr. President.

What happened? Why decide to leave ECOWAS? Thanks. As you say, this is a topical issue. It happened last Sunday, this withdrawal decision therefore, of these three countries grouped within the AES. It's not cheerful than turning our back on an organization.

But it is at the end of a deep analysis and I think this organization was born at 75. – If I'm not mistaken…- in 1975, indeed. …with heads of state mostly from the military, in any case as far as the AES is concerned, they were all military. Absolutely. I think it was a desire to integrate people, to make the development of the economy, solidarity, mutual aid.-, overall the pan-Africanist virtues which have led the heads of state.

To therefore create this organization. Unfortunately, over time, the organization has lost its values. And today, the observation is clear. I think that for over a decade, the sister republics of Mali and Niger are at war against terrorism. And in Burkina, almost a decade, we are at war. This organization which was supposed therefore.

Create mutual aid and solidarity. We have never received any help from this organization. No soldiers, no logistics, no compassion. But Mr. President, we want to say, we understand that recently, relationships were particularly difficult with what happened, the coups that took place in these different states that you have just mentioned Mali, Niger and Burkina, that you want to leave.

And people say is it not in reaction to the fact that they do not accept that you would have allowed coups d'état that you leave and you say good to yourself, since they don't accept it, we leave. Coup d'état, we don't do it because we want it, It is this way of seeing things that must change. You agree with me that having these states in crisis to carry out a coup d'état and assume one's responsibilities, it is very heavy.

But if we do it, it's because we have a desire to take our people, therefore towards a certain sovereignty, because we know the origin of this crisis. And I think we should be accompanied. The people are proud, the cities have so many millions of displaced people in these regions. What are you doing to help them? Nothing! Do you have the feeling that it’s the military who are more likely to resolve these problems.

Where the politicians, the civilians, is that your feeling? Anyone could do it. And how can we explain that these are the soldiers who take control and say we no longer want civilians? No, the military did not say that we no longer want civilians. It is out of a duty of patriotism, when the nation is in danger, At some point, important decisions must be made. It turns out that it was the soldiers who had the courage to make this decisions, well that's what is there.

In any case, civilians or soldiers, we are all the children of this country and whoever is animated by this feeling to be able to free his country, one can do it. So it's not a question of the military. Elsewhere, the military has succeeded. Here too, the military can succeed well. So, Mr. President, what do you say to ECOWAS officials who, say they are leaving because they said that they don't want putschists among them.

There are many putschists among them. So it's not a question of putschists, it's just a mask. When you say putschists, civilian putschists? There are military putschists within ECOWAS who today claim to be democrats, there are civilians. There are worse things than putschists. There are some who kill, who gag their people, in silence. ECOWAS closes its eyes and ears. There are plenty of putschists within ECOWAS.

So Mr. President, we say, OK, we are leaving ECOWAS with immediate effect, Burkina Faso, Niger and Mali, we leave with immediate effect. Mr. President, this concerns a lot of people. What do we do with the free movement of people, of your populations who are in these countries of ECOWAS that you are leaving overnight? How exactly is this going to happen? Because the texts say.

It takes at least a year to be able to implement all of them. – Now, you say no, is it over now.- Yes. First you say: “the texts say.” But they themselves have never respected their texts. It's done at the customer's discretion. This is what we noticed. The sanctions imposed on Niger do not exist anywhere in the texts. So the first to violate these texts are these so-called democrats we leave,.

But we remain pan-African. Anyone in Africa, an African who wants to come to Burkina, he is welcome at home. But on the contrary, it will be complicated. Someone who is within the AES, we're going to talk about the AES in a moment, someone who is within the AES, we can tell him that he can no longer go in Ivory Coast, he can no longer go to Ghana, it becomes a little more complicated for those who do their business there.

We will see and decide what measures to take in due course. This departure from ECOWAS is well thought out, Mr. President? Of course, very well thought out. It's not a crush, it's not a burst of anger. If it was an outburst, we would have done it a long time ago. I think we have time to analyze the situation, to weigh many things and finally decide. So, if it was a crush from the first moment of certain sanctions, the people have been quite resilient,.

It must be said. They suffered. So, during this time, we could decide in anger. Now, we have taken the time to observe, to analyze the situation and to convince ourselves of our strengths before deciding. And you took everyone by surprise. Another element in this, we will say, this new way of drawing West Africa.

The AES, the Alliance of Sahel States. Mr. President, is the AES viable? On paper, it's very, very attractive. But is it viable? You know very well that it is more than viable. You know, for a long time, our people, in a certain philosophy always tending to make us believe that we can do nothing without others. Today, our mission is to raise awareness.

– You do it very well indeed.- THANKS. And I really appreciate it. We need to be able to raise awareness, that young people realize what is in their home. Such an organization, you must first realize your strengths then its weaknesses, and at the end of this analysis, you decide. The AES is very viable.

When we look at the econom, Mr. President, if I may, these are economies that are very integrated. You produce the same thing, you do the exact same thing who will sell to whom? How will it trade and what are we doing? because these are not countries that have at least one opening to the sea? Numbers are one thing. The economy too. You know, we are here a very short time ago,.

But the economy was pulled a little torn by past regimes, otherwise, we should have very strong economies today. That is what I am saying. By analyzing our strengths, we realize that we should not be at this stage. We must have been much further away. When you take the AES, in terms of population, in terms surface area, we are very good in terms of production. Normally, the states on the list should not carry anything.

With regard to agricultural products, food. Today we are aware of this and we are doing everything, so that we don't import anything when it comes to what we consume. In terms of wealth, whether it is natural, when I say natural, there are underground riches, but there is also on the surface, we shout everywhere that Africans are dying of hunger and thirst and so on, projects invented here and there, for example to give us drinking water,.

The AES is a race for underground water reserves and even on the surface. In terms of mineral resources, we have nothing to envy of anyone. And in nature, when you take products like I like to say, shea is a natural wealth. We didn't plant it. It is God who gave it, but it is very rich. People take and transform it, it’s there.

We are aware of our potential. The AES has nothing to envy of anyone. For you, AES may be enough, be an integrated whole that functions normally. Perfectly. Mr President, when we look the approach which has just been undertaken by these three states, very concretely, we listen almost everywhere the fact that there is a need for them to be working with others.

On a subject that is the most important subject today, security. I want to ask Mr. President, today you have been here for some time already, it's been over a year, what is your record in the field of security? Before we talk about these three states in terms of security? In your case, in Burkina Faso, a large part of the territory is still in the hands of terrorists. What have you been able to do since you have been here in this field?.

Alright. This is the priority for us. When you said, these terrorists, it's killing, burning, displacing populations, grabing land. But I can tell you right now, as I said recently, there's no portions of territory where we want to go to and which we cannot go to. Today you are going all over the country.

Everywhere. Territories that were under control, for three or four years, we have been setting up there. But yet, we talk more about attacks than before, when there were foreign armies in the territory. Oh yes, are you sure? More attacks, it's relative. Today we are on the offensive for most zones. We are no longer in a defensive posture, we go towards the enemy, we seek the enemy.

When we decided to take our destiny into our own hands, as we like to say, It’s a pretty important and very courageous decision. And when you decide like that, all the sleeper cells wake up suddenly. And that's when you realize the magnitude of the terrorism situation. We realized this well. But to wage war,.

First there is patriotism. There are logistics. There is now situational intelligence. Patriotism has awakened in all Burkinabe people, whether it is the combatants, whether it is the civilian population. But I contribute well to you, This would not have been possible a few years ago. Why? We must know how to awaken patriotism in every people,.

Give them confidence, know that the homeland is the only thing they have left. We managed to do that. This is why, when asked to contribute, they do so. People have been asked to arm themselves to fight wherever they are, Even today, if they don't decide that we want 1 million Burkinabé to fight, we will have them. – Volunteers- for the defense of the homeland. Yes. People are ready, they are committed.

– It's not dangerous for them.- No. This is their homeland. This is their homeland. All over the world, people who fought for their homeland. Mr President, when we say that, in that we want to ask ourselves the question of knowing this terrorism has been going on for a while now in our territories, with armies that came and extraordinary sums spent, of the quality military arsenal so far,.

How to explain that suddenly, you decided that The three of you are going to fight this without the others? Is this realistic? What makes this more possible today than with those armies that were there? It's more than realistic. There were several situations. We had the chance to do the fieldwork. Many other officers that you can meet.

Had the chance to field and maneuver with these foreign armies. On your own territory, they put restrictions on you, they do what they want. Which is even more surprising. Imagine, you said with all the technology they had, currently there may be satellites that observe everything. They had drones, helicopters, all types of devices, but we never saw the terrorists. Today we have decided to go to war.

You realize, we find them every day and we whip them. So there is a problem. For you, there was no real desire to fight them. No desire to fight it. If they wanted to, they could have done it. The terrorists would never have reached these levels. So today, we say if they produce results, if they achieve any results, it is because they have the Russians with them. There was Wagner who we talked about today.

Today, we even have the Russians who are going to open their first military base with Afrikakorps. Mr. President, are the Russians helping you? and is their help better than that of the foreign armies which were present until then? You know, with regard to Burkina for example, we have always been a relationship with Russia and I tell you the equipment that the Burkinabés had 80%, it was Russian equipment. – Really?- Of course.

But yet, you had a stronger relationship militarily with the French How to explain this? Yes, because this equipment dates back years, perhaps from the revolution. Of course, we have equipment that dates from the years of the revolution, who are still fighting, Russian equipment and Koreans still fighting in our army. – Are they more efficient?- During all this time, the army has been neglected, don't forget that, since the 90s, with the so-called structural adjustment program, everything has been distorted.

Even there were soldiers who stood guard with sticks. We disarmed our armies It was well prepared. More equipment, more training. People just wore the outfit. And terrorism joins the dance a few years later. And it sings on all media: they are incapable of fighting, We will come to help them and terrorism is only gaining ground.

Today, with Russia, the relationship is to have strategic. I think you understand that much better than me. And with Russia there is no equipment that we want to buy from them that they don't sell. Others place restrictions on us. – And you say you can't buy this type of weapon,- Of course. But the Russians will sell you whatever you want. Whatever we want. Until the moment I speak to you, we are being blocked from licenses.

Of certain planes. There are some types of weapons they will never sell us. And how do we explain these restrictions to you? It is to you that I ask the question: where is the friendship? What do they want? There are many countries, Russians, Chinese, Turks and the Koreans, and so on. There are no restrictions. With Iran, whatever we want, they will take stock of it, if we can pay, we pay.

But with these states that were supposedly our friends, there are restrictions, there are even some who have managed to tell us that they can do nothing that is lethal? – Oh yes ?- Yes ! So you're waging war, you can't kill the one in front of you? Ah yes, the terrorists are killing us, but we may have a duty to pick up stones, maybe even the stone is lethal, anything lethal they don't sell to us, that's the principle. Today, with Russia,.

What do they get in return? We know well that there is no friendship between States. It's always interest. Everyone comes for their own interests. So, today there is the fear of a certain number of people to see that one master has been changed for another. Now, I know you a little bit to know that you are not in the replacement of one master by another, What are you giving the Russians in concrete terms so that they are there?.

Do they take minerals? How do you pay for them? Are you selling a portion of the territory? What's the deal? If that was the deal to truly leave one master for another, we prefer to die. Because when we says homeland or death, it makes perfect sense. No, it's just fake news again.

And unfortunately, we had even seen heads of state who fell into it and went to tell the lie, supposedly we have gave mines to the Russians in our southern part. Very wrong. There is nothing given to the Russians. – Very wrong.- Not even a mine? Why give? If the Russians want a mine, we have the mining code,.

They come to integrate into it. We give them their license, they pay taxes and they do everything they have to do like everyone else. But with what do you pay the Russians then? They don't come for your beautiful eyes? Ah yes, with the countries first. When did the Russians arrive in Burkina? This is the last time instructors came because they must come and educate the military on the equipment.

And it is with all the countries besides, It's not just the Russians. When you sign a contract to acquire equipment we sign the contract with the training. Are there lots of Turks here? Why don't they talk about it? Who specialize in drones. We paid for drones with Turkey, with an assistance contract. There is no more, there is no more in every corner where we are there. There are the Turks who are there. Why don't we talk about it?.

They are there, they support us, they trained our crews in Türkiye, they come here, they assist them and they continue to train them in piloting, maintenance and everything. We have the contract for a given time when our men are well trained, They're going to leave. The Chinese are there. The equipment we pay for in China is also there to train handling this equipment. That's the reality.

They are on the ground or not, the Russians On the ground to fight? No, there are no Russians on the ground to fight. These are things actually developed in people's heads. But if necessary, they will come to the field to fight, that, I can assure you, if necessary… – You don't forbid yourself?- No. Except that for the moment, they are not on the ground? No, for now we are fighting alone. They support us in terms.

Training, logistics, tactical training and everything. He supports us on this aspect. So I asked the question before Let there be no digression on your security record today, because we saw some movements and certain populations who are getting a little impatient, and then like you said, the people are very resilient, but at some point, enough is enough. So what did you do so?.

So that the Burkinabè can say President Traoré has arrived, he resolved this or that problem for us internally. We don't talk about that. And I even said to certain Ministers of Communication, I don't want us to talk too much about our recovery. Let the villagers speak for themselves. There are several villages that have been settled, schools which have opened in several areas. But often saying that there is no progress means there is no progress.

It brings the villagers back and even makes videos to tell people it's false. You're lying, we left so many years ago, but we just came back, we are safe. Recently there have been some reports to really confirm that people have taken over the place. Are there any displaced people who have returned home? Who even sell their activities today market garden products on the market, that means they returned several months ago,.

They had time to cultivate. They made several… Because you went on the offensive or because they had the VDP there? The offensive is with the VDP. Of course. You know, I was immediately talking about patriotism and logistics, It was the second part that failed us. Listen, when you take for example – the Djibo attack last November.- Absolutely.

As soon as there was the attack and the response of the elements in Djibo and air vectors, the next day, rapid intervention battalions moved towards Djibo with the supplies and continued and marched on the Baraboulé base the Baraboulé terrorist base where we have never been since 2019, this is the part from where they prepare all the attacks whether it is Baraboulé, Bouroum up to the border of Pétégoli. They marched on terrorist bases. If there were no logistics, it's impossible.

We were going to sit down, plan the operation. We're already taking a month, more than a month, seek to bring together logistics and men. That's how it happened. And to bring together the logistics, I will tell you a secret, there have been times during certain operations here, let us borrow weapons from neighboring countries, come and do the operation, clean and put them back. But today,.

All of this gives us a very bad image of ourselves. Today, as soon as there is an attack, we have to use the rapid intervention battalion, you move because they are fully equipped, ready to fight. We don't have a little time to lose and immediately they take off and rush into battle. This is how it happens now. There are several of them which are equipped, which are positioned all over the country and this is also the rise in power in logistical and tactical terms. Mr President, when we see all this.

With all the logistical help you speak of, with the Russians who are brought in to train, as you said, your troops, that's a lot of money. Can the Burkinabe economy last a long time with this? Very good question, that's a lot of money, that's why I say that our country is not poor. There is bad governance, there is theft, the plundering of our resources,.

That's it. That's what it's about. I take an example today the Patriotic Support Fund, the population contributes and the vast majority maintains so the volunteers for the defense of the homeland with. But and the rest of the army, that we are in the process of equipping all these means that we are in the process of acquiring that’s there, that’s governance, finance.

There are resources, we have potential. But if it's mismanaged, we were free. For you, countries have enough to hold on to by simply producing and implementing good governance? How do we acquire the equipment? It's not for our beautiful eyes as you say that we are given we pay, but it’s management. There are situations. We actually manage to manage, because in all departments,.

All ministerial sectors, everyone is doing their best to rationalize. It's what? You know, there is this habit of corruption at the high level, overbilling. Because when someone holds elections, especially in Africa, here, it's like a business. We will finance them, It's the custom here, we distribute tickets so that we can vote on them. It's an investment and as soon as it arrives,.

– he is obliged to plunder to repay- to repay. There's not that with us. We don't have an outside account, we have nothing, we don't want it. Everything is geared towards war. Indeed, if you take the field of oil, you know that the State subsidizes oil, petroleum products, gasoline, diesel so that the people of Burkina Faso pay less. In 2022, for example, subsidies were around.

400, almost 500 billion, which the State pays. 500 billion CFA francs. In 2023, we will have less than 100 billion in subsidies. That is to say, you saved 400 billion in subsidies? How do you explain that? We were free too, when people make the proposal to say to the company, SONABHY, such and such a person will make an offer at such and such a price,.

But you take at such a price and the discounts, you give them to us. We go to open our offshore accounts and we put it in. That's how it happens. And we hold you at that moment when you have opened external accounts… But of course, if you're having fun, we say we're going to freeze your accounts? We don't have an account. So everything is oriented towards the war, these savings are the equipment. Yes. Mr President, there was a long discussion about how long.

You are going to stay, when are you organizing elections? How long will the transition last? Do you have an answer to that today? Do you think this is not a priority for you? How long will Captain Ibrahim Traoré be in business? and will organize elections to leave his chair? I was going to ask you a question in return before answering you. I'm not here to answer our questions. It was a debate and it's nice.

If today, in six months, we decided to abandon the people, you, as very objective man and aware of our situation, what are you going to say? What would your comment be? Honestly, I prefer to abstain, even if you know what I think. Okay, this is to tell you that it is often tiring, It's tiring,.

But the only thing that keeps us going is the love of the people. We eat there, we drink there. Since we have been here, we have never taken a single day off. In any case, the entire executive. And you imagine, when you say that, politicians say to themselves For us, it’s our job because there are some who have made it their job, we want to return to democracy, we want to return to Parliament with people who are elected. We want to make the people speak.

What do you tell them? Are we going to stay like this? Or that we are going to set up a new model which will perhaps allow us to get back on track Their profession. Did they learn this profession? We do not want that people learn this profession from elsewhere and come and apply it here, we want to create a model. Because the way things are done here is not the right way.

It's like I told you. First, there are a lot of agreements that you see, that we are denouncing and many more are to come. Ah yes, the revolution on this aspect has not yet started. That's why I say our economies are going to do very well. People, sign agreements for their own interests. Like I said, these are investments. Unfortunately, African heads of state, those who get into these kinds of political jobs,.

Have not always understood. I think that the facts of yesteryear must give a lot of lessons such as the Bokassa and others, they continue to plunder their country's resources and invest in them. How can we give? I do not know how I'll explain it, it's inconceivable. But for you, Mr. President, there is no question of speaking.

Of the organization of end-of-transition elections. Oh yes, how are we going to organize the elections as we are doing now? – So we have to put everything back.- In armament. Apart from the system that is in place, which must be reviewed, the elections, it concerns all of Burkina Faso. You think they are ready today to go to Sollé, to go to Falagountou to do the campaigns It's the Burkinabé, who will vote. – For you, you must first pacify- There must be a minimum of security.

So that if there is a campaign, people can go everywhere in Burkina and explain their ideas to the Burkinabe people. And the people will choose, because there is no longer any question to go distribute money. And there will be reforms to the electoral code. That's the end of it. If you are caught wrong, you will be disqualified. I don't want to get ahead of the iguana in the water, but this is to tell you that there are reforms to come.

This way of doing things, of buying consciences, is over. Our mission is to raise awareness and that young people never accept that again. If you think you can govern the country, you explain your political program, what are you going to do? And maybe after a while, the people will evaluate you whether you should continue your mandate or not. In short, we won't say everything, but there will be reforms on the electoral level.

And so that people can vote, all Burkinabè must vote. Mr President, I return to the AES which is something important to you since you are making it the battlehorse in this war. What are the relations with the other heads of state of Niger and Mali? Can we consider an expansion of this AES? even to states that are not in the Sahel? The possibility of expanding,.

And I start there, it is possible in the charter, it exists. So we made an opening. But the relationships between us, it’s fraternal. This is what we dreamed of Africa, this is what is there now. Do you share the same vision on Africa? Because sometimes people are jealous of their prerogatives in their country. No, we share the same vision and we do the same mission. And if you look through so the communications,.

Everything we do is to raise awareness. Why will a head of state want his people to wake up? The others tend to make people fall asleep so they can continue to do what they want. We want the people to wake up so that even after us, that people never again let individuals come and put them in these conditions. So, whether in Niger or Mali, here, if you want, in our communication, it is always to make people understand what happened before and today, how we manage to break the chains of slavery.

So that's it, we have to manage to ensure that everyone breaks the chains of slavery and that is our communication. And that's very important. That's a vision. Secondly, regarding our self-determination, self-sufficient in food power, there are many things that are being developed in our regions. For example, if we take other crops like wheat.

Besides, when we said that it cannot be done in our regions, We do it today on a large scale. In Mali, they are doing it on a large scale, Niger, they are underway. There are many other speculations that we are currently experimenting. The message is to make our populations understand that we don't need to import, we can produce everything for us here and even export. Produce and export within the AES. Are you not afraid for yourself today, Mr. President?.

Afraid? We lived through the period of Thomas Sankara who is a bit like your model since many compare you to him through your ideas, through the way you behave, through your choices. We know how it ended. Yes, you are right and that is the question that everyone is wondering and it is the phobia of the Burkinabe people. In fact, when they think about it, they are always afraid for me. For my person,.

I am not afraid. We don't know fear. We have faced death many times We rubbed shoulders with her. We don't know, God made us whether we are alive or not, we give thanks to God. So we don't know fear. But we analyzed the past. On certain aspects, Maybe President Thomas Sankara made mistakes.

When he said, for example letting friends betray friendship, it is not up to us to betray friendship. I think that sentence won out. Do you think he should have been on the offensive? We're not going to make the same mistakes again, that's for sure. And imperialism, as he said, is a very bad student. When he is chased away, he returns with the same methods. We follow. So we won't let.

The same mistakes happen again today. Today, Mr. President, what are your relations with France and with the European Union? We don't have any special relationships. I say: international relations are what they are. It's… It's happening, as it should happen, if I may say so. There's nothing bad. In any case, Burkina is asserting its sovereignty.

Any country or organization that respects this, we are in good relationship. But when you don't want to, when you want to dictate to us what we have to do. But you still talk, right? Of course, we talk to each other. The European Union, recently, we received the new ambassador. I know you followed, he's there, he's working, there's no problem. The French embassy is also still there.

They continue their activities. – And the Americans?- They are here. So there is no problem on that side. Cooperation continues, but… As long as we respect our ideological line, as long as we respect our sovereignty, as long as we respect the fact that we want to break our chains and be independent. So that gives us the opportunity to end on that. We know that ECOWAS does not agree on the exit, saying it is good for us.

We still learned, I know, that the letter was addressed to them. Do you still accept negotiation? Is it possible that tomorrow you will say to yourselfWell, ok, we understand, we come back if you come back to better feelings or it's over, let's finish, we'll never talk about it again. You must not make certain mistakes, I just told you. Our route was a path of no return. All we do when we decide is chains.

That we are breaking, it is forever. – So never again ECOWAS.- No it's finished. If we get into this and this is my last question, if we get into it, that also means that in a while you are going to attack the currency, which is the CFA? Probably. – Let things happen.– It’s almost inevitable, isn’t it, Mr. President? You know, in everything we do, That surprised you, didn't it?.

Things may still surprise you. It's not just the currency. Everything that is linked which keeps us in slavery. We will break these bonds. Thank you very much Mr. President. You are welcome. This interview is now over, stay with AFO Media.

Sharing is caring!