If Trump wins, it can perchance well well additionally not appropriate be possibility to our democracy posed by him, author warns

A little while ago I had the honor of calling Senator Barack Obama to congratulate him please I urge all Americans I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating him but offering our next.

President our Good Will and Earnest effort to find ways to come together together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our differences and help restore our prosperity defend our security in a dangerous world and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger better country than we inherited whatever our differences we.

Are fellow Americans and please believe me when I say no association has ever meant more to me than that that was the late Senator John McCain during his concession speech after the 2008 presidential election that was just over 15 years ago but those calls for bipartisanship civility and hope seemed far removed from today's toxic political.

Climate and active threats to democracy joining us now senior fellow at the Brookings institution and colist for the Washington Post Bob Kagan he's author of the new book book on sale today entitled Rebellion how anti-liberalism is tearing America apart again uh thank you for coming on the show um let's start with the term.

Anti-liberalism if we may can you please define it yeah I mean the word liberal is thrown around uh it has a lot of meanings for for a lot of different people but but what the the the essential thing about our founding was that it was a it was a liberal government in the the sense that it was about protecting individual rights for.

All people Universal equal rights for all people and that was what the government was founded on and we have been uh that that system has been under attack at various different times throughout our history uh before the Civil War obviously the South was opposed uh to that to the Declaration of Independence and even today uh in fact.

Coming back uh today these forces have returned uh that are opposed not just to the Biden Administration but to the general regime they call it the regime uh that is the founders uh system and this is not just a Donald Trump problem some of his core supporters are committed to changing the system that we've been living under and undermining.

Our democracy and we need to understand that if Donald Trump wins it won't just be the danger posed by Donald Trump but by many people in his administration and by his his strong supporters who simply do not believe in the fundamental principles on which this government was founded and you write in the book Bob on the other hand if he loses in November.

He undoubtedly will call into question the outcome of the election the results we've seen this movie before of course for years ago and then you you sort of Follow The Dominoes even further from there which is to say republican Le States may change the way they work with or do not work with the federal government and view their own role in.

Our culture our soci yeah for one thing we kind of forget that that the secession or the threat of secession was a very common feature uh of American government certainly in the 19th century until the Civil War it it is always an option and I think what we need to understand is that if Donald Trump loses as I hope he does and he.

Declares that the election is fraudulent this time he's going to have the Republican Party substantially supporting him you'll see the leaders in both houses agree that the election was fraudulent because they're totally uh you know supportive of whatever Trump says and then the question is what happens in heavily Republican states uh.

States where the legislature is Republican where the governor is Republican we've already seen Texas uh recently in a way engaging in a nullification by having its own or trying to establish its own border control which is which is you know not the way things are supposed to work that is and you know if you poll Americans.

Quite amazingly a very high number in both parties uh talk about the possibility of secession if the wrong president uh if the wrong person is elected president so I do think that is something to worry about the one thing that I think we can all be confident of is that if Trump loses there will be a substantial uh resistance perhaps.

Violence uh you know January 6 on a much on a much greater level and I think we won't be out of the woods even if Trump uh loses so Bob we've always had tremendous issues boiling in this country forever no matter what decade you're talking about no matter what generation but today if you listen to the principal candidate for the.

Republican nomination for the presidency he describes at times a country that to me is unrecognizable a country that seems almost finished a country that if he's not elected it's over for this country uh a country that if uh the election goes to Joe Biden this fall will be the last free election we ever have what has.

Happened within the confines of all of that that I just described to Chang so drastically changed the way we look at the country well I think what what's happened is that the Republican party has been captured by this fundamentally anti-liberal movement it's a minority of the country in fact it's a shrinking minority of the country uh in so far as.

It's made up primarily of white nationalists and white Christian nationalists uh who are a shrinking portion of the country but who have uh a significant influence clearly in the Republican party and can control uh what everybody else does and and and that has given Trump license and in fact he has summoned this group to him you know uh.

We talked about we were talking about John McCain's concession speech to Barack Obama his gracious speech how did Donald Trump introduce himself to the political scene in this country in 2011 potentially for a 2012 run he made his number one issue uh the birther conspiracy in other words that the first black American president was not really.

An American every it's clear what he was doing when he when he did that he was saying he was signaling I am the candidate of white nationalism I am and and now he's made himself the candidate of white Christian nationalism you know with the Trump Bible and saying that he's going to teach America to pray again this is from Donald Trump of.

Course but he has that following and so I think what we're seeing is not necessarily a fundamental uh misdirection of the United States but a particular group that has always existed in this country has now seized control of one of our two political parties and we are now paying the price for that and by the way one of Donald Trump's first.

Acts as a candidate was to attack John McCain and his heroism during his time in Vietnam the new book is an eyeopener it's titled Rebellion how anti-liberalism is tearing America apart again Bob Kagan thanks congrats on the book thanks so much appreciate it

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