Israeli invasion into Rafah ‘may maybe maybe maybe be a catastrophe,’ says retired lieutenant frequent

Let me now bring in Lieutenant General Ben Hodes former commander of US Army Europe so thank you so much for being here thank you yish now Ukraine Aid has been stalled in its fight I should say Ukraine has been stalled in its fight against Russia I wonder how much the aid that is stalled in Congress how much it could it could really make a difference.

Here when you think about the boots on the ground and what Ukraine is trying to accomplish well it would have two or three significant effects uh number one obviously the kinetic effect giving ukrainians the ammunition they need to stop these uh large Russian ground attacks and also to protect the thousands of innocent ukrainians who are.

Being attacked every night by Russian missiles and Rockets slamming into apartment buildings like the one you're showing right there but it also would have a significant effect on Russia Russia is counting on the US turning its back on Ukraine uh they are hoping for a trump uh election in November so that real support for the for Ukraine.

Will dry up that's what the Russians are counting on and so if the president were to say we want Ukraine to win and if the Congress were to pass this Aid package that would take a lot of the steam out of Russia's uh Only Hope we've also seen NATO take steps to ensure Ukraine will continue to get military aid even if former president Donald Trump returned.

To the White House what does that say you think about our allies and our view and their view of our commitment to them given the fact that NATO is now basically saying we're going to take this step in case the Americans politics shift this this is embarrassing yish uh this tells you that um our allies are losing confidence in the United States.

And when they lose confidence in us we lose influence with them yes of course our European allies should do more all of them can do a lot more but you've got several countries that are given a much larger share of their GDP than we are so um I think we do not want to lose the influence that we have in Europe because all of our best and most reliable allies.

Come from Europe as well as Canada and Australia and so this this war in Ukraine is about a lot more than just Ukraine well I have to ask you what do you think it would take for Ukraine to win here I know you've talked about sort of what the aid could do for them what does that look like if they win yeah three things uh and thanks for asking.

That number one victory for Ukraine means ejection of Russia back to to the 1991 internationally recognized Sovereign borders of Ukraine that includes of course Crimea that could have happened this past year if we had made that commitment to help them win but that's number one number two is the provision of long range Precision.

Weapons such as atacam or the German tawus uh that can make Crimea untenable for Russian forces and also can neutralize Russia's only Advantage which is their Mass because with long range Precision weapons you can destroy headquarters Logistics and artillery the third thing that they need of course is the protection of their civilian.

Population from Russian attacks these uh illegal criminal attacks against civilian targets that are happening every night they need more air and missile defense to protect them and then finally Clarity from the United States for the president of the United States to say it is in our strategic interest that Ukraine defeats Russia and we're.

Going to do everything to make sure that happens not this frankly empty phrase of we're with Ukraine for as long as it takes no nobody believes that anyway I want to also turn now of course to the other big war that's happening abroad and that is of course what's going on between Israel and Hamas President Biden has told Israeli Israeli Prime Minister.

Ben Manan yahu that he would put conditions on US military aid if Israel didn't do more to protect civilians and humanitarian workers in Gaza do you think Israel is really taking that threat seriously and what would withholding military assistance um do for Israel's fight in this war well um this this is a very tough situation for.

The Israelis but also for the president but it's an even tougher situation for th hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were caught in this terrible conflict look U Hamas is a terrorist organization and all of them should burn in hell forever but the thousands of Palestinians who live there are caught here being used as Shields by Hamas but.

But they are being killed by Israeli operations and the burden is on the Israelis to protect innocent people despite what a terrorist organization is doing I can't tell yet how much influence we've had with uh Israel and their policy um I'm sure there is some of it but I just can't tell yet but I think it's going to require more steps.

From our side to tell the Israelis you can no longer use American weapons or American ammunition uh inside Gaza for example or any anywhere that um extends or enables the greater Israel ideology that means illegal settlements in the West Bank uh doing anything that extends Beyond Israel's borders well something else really striking happened today.

Benjamin Netanyahu said that a date has been set for Israel's Invasion into Rafa and that he also said that victory for Israel requires that an inv of Rafa happened but over a million people of course have been taking shelter there so I wonder what impact do you think invading Rafa could have um when you think about the fact that there are so.

Many people there um especially if Israel takes that step without having a serious plan to protect civilian there could that impact their aid their relationship with the US I think this would be a catastrophe if Israel launches an attack into Rafa a place with thousands and thousands of innocent people uh if the Israelis.

Continue the same sort of tactics that they've been using uh and plus I mean I think it would be almost impossible for the administration to continue to support Israel uh in a significant way because I mean this would be the prime minister of Israel telling the US Administration pound s uh we're going to do what we have to do that's after vice.

President Harris has said it would be a disaster for Israel to go into Rafa for example I think that the problem here is that the go that prime minister Netanyahu has set to destroy Hamas is a totally infeasible objective you cannot destroy a terrorist organization we tried for 20 years to destroy the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and.

Afghanistan and we never did it because you have to address the source what caused an organization like Hamas to uh come come on the scene and what keeps it going and just killing your way um is not going to get it done there's going to have to be a political objective that is sustainable and of course that means a two-state solution I.

Also want to ask you you say you know it would be impossible for the us to continue to support Israel if they went into gafa into Rafa why do you think President Biden was unable to convince Benjamin Netanyahu to not move forward with this military Invasion I think that U they are not the Israeli government this particular.

Government is not convinced that the US would ever actually use the ultimate leverage that we have I think that they are so accustomed to uh Republican administrations Democratic administrations always supporting them um that they are confident that we would never actually use the leverage that we have and I think that um if this.

Continues on the path that it is um and again I want to be very clear what happened on October 7th horrible everybody involved in that on the Hamas side should should burn in hell forever but that is no reason it's not acceptable for Israel then to use Aid that we provide and kill thousands of innocent Palestinians we're going to.

Have to find a way to get towards a two-state solution this war is not about religion it's about land well thank you so much Lieutenant General Ben hajes thank you for the privilege thanks for watching stay updated about breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or follow us on social media.

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