‘Lie down with canines, you score fleas’ – Recapping emotional testimony from Trump’s legal trial

Thank you so much for that well here with me in studio right now Katie Fang attorney and host of the Katie Fang show here on MSNBC take your pictures later my friend I'm sitting next to Hugo and L I got take hug with perfect hair political investigations reporter with the guardian and on the opposite side of the desk here we've got Lin cartright.

I'm glad to welcome him he of course the executive editor of the national Inquirer when it's catch and kill policy buried those stories about Donald Trump he is now a special correspondent for The Hollywood Reporter so I welcome you all um a pretty significant week out there let's lay out what happened in week three with you Hugo uh talk about.

How crucial hope Hick's testimony was to this case super crucial I think she was the highlight of the entire day yesterday uh not least because I think she strengthened the prosecution's case in two major ways uh in this very significant moment when she relayed a description of what Trump had told her was about.

Paying uh the hush money to the women and she basically revealed two things first of all that Trump had Direct knowledge that Cohen was paying hush money it wasn't for legal expenses or legal retainers and second of all she cast doubt on the theory of the case that Trump has been pushing which is that this was all Cohen freelancing he.

Was going rogue he was acting out of supposed selflessness because she said you know Michael Cohen's not that kind of guy you know he doesn't act selflessly he likes to take credit yeah for sure uh the beginning of the testimony if we go back to that with you Katie um this was about really the campaign scramble oh yeah when they were.

Hearing about the Access Hollywood tape they'd been alerted to it they knew it was going to be released let's take a listen to part of her testimony there or give you a refresher to that because we couldn't hear her testimony but here it is like kissing them it's like a magnet just k i don't even wa any when you're a star they let you do it you can do.

Anything whatever you want grab them by the okay yeah so uh that can't be entered into evidence but the jury was allowed to hear it right so so talk about how that played into hicks's testimony uh about the campaign reaction to this and what she laid out there so it's fascinating Alex because the reason why judge M would not allow the actual.

Audio in is because he said it would be so prejudicial to have the actual voice of Donald Trump saying that and that was Billy Bush as well that the transcript was entered into evidence and even right now you still I mean we heard it but when you when you hear it it's was still jarring right so they didn't hear what was on it it was merely transcript so it.

Was to them trans it was red to them and the reason why it was even more jarring is you then Heard It Through HCK of all people and then you heard this Mad Dash and the panic and all hell breaking loose in the Trump campaign to try to do damage control over this tape and you heard how the concern is that it directly impacted the campaign nobody.

Said it directly impacted Trump's marriage to Melania nobody said it impacted Trump's children's his relationship with his children it was what the hell are we going to do as the campaign to make sure that we can do damage control and to Hugo's point from a structural standpoint you start your direct examination by the prosecution of.

Hope pix and then you get Emil boovie up to do the cross-examination but the very last testimony that we get from her on Direct by the prosecution is her admitting that she didn't think Michael Cohen was charitable or selfless enough to do this meaning make the payments without Donald Trump knowing but then the last thing she literally said was it.

Was I think Mr Trump's opinion was it was better to be dealing with it now and that it would have been bad to have that Story come out before the election that's the one two that's the knockout punch from Hope Hicks to Donald Trump's defense not only is it not Michael Cohen going Rog and making these payments but it really always had to do with the.

Impact on The Campaign which is the prosecution's case let's get to you and what you were doing at this time you were at the national Inquirer when all this was happening uh and she described the Panic ahead of the 2020 election there what was your takeaway I'm curious as you sat in this courtroom it's taking you back to that time and also the.

Campaign's efforts at least initially hope pix did testify saying the initial reaction was deny deny deny yeah and and and again that kept coming through the strategy of just deny deny deny you know they were in such a meltdown over the Access Hollywood tape and then here is stormmy Daniels she comes on the scene she's looking for a payoff she's talking.

At that point to my direct boss Dylan Howard who we've learned won't be testifying because he's in Australia and there's a an apparent spinal condition that means he won't be giving evidence um but uh it's clear that you during that period the campaign's in total meltdown here you have Stormy Daniels with the damaging story of her Affair.

You know with the president and so then my direct boss Dylan Howard is in discussions with Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson who we heard from this week in trying to get this story off the market and David pecker the CEO of American Media the company I used to work for testified that he's not a bank he'd already done two of these payoffs he'd.

Already taken Dino the Dorman off the market for 30k and then done uh the further payment to Cara mcdal for 150k so he says to Dylan how go let them take care of it as in Michael Cohen and the campaign and uh Dylan Howard still gets involved with it there is this negotiation going on with Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen to to take Stormy.

Daniels off off the market which they which they end up doing would you say there was a pan inside the national inquire about this I I think the Panic was more going on at the campaign you know I think the the Panic was going on within the campaign and then you know the corporation was being asked of of Dylan Howard to help and David picker to.

Help take this this off the market okay uh so hopeck uh broke out in tears that was really pretty memorable you were there Hugo um talk about the reaction the moment in the courtroom when she did that what did people think did they think crocodile tears did they feel sorry sorry for her did they feel it's just an expression of stress or that she.

Feels badly what what what was the interpretation of that yeah look I it wasn't like she burst into tears it was it was actually quite slight you know she was kind of testifying and her voice kind of uh quivered for a moment and then she kind of turned away and she she she kind of asked for a break and and the judge granted it so it wasn't like.

An outflowing of of tears but she clearly broke down well she said she was nervous at the very top I mean everybody knew that and that and that was also very telling you know when hope hick walked into the courtroom and I I was in the Overflow side I could see Trump's face as she walked in you know Trump basically tracked her walking in looking.

At her the entire time hope hits sits down and he's looking directly at Hope hick the entire time she doesn't look at him but he's looking at her and then she has this moment at the start when she's speaking very very softly and the judge says you know you please speak into the mic and then there's a second time when the prosecutor says please speak into.

The mic because we can't hear you and that's when she says it's sorry I'm I'm just very nervous I think the tears came potentially in part because she knew what she was saying was was a gift to the prosecution I mean she effectively said that it was all to do with the election at the very end of you know to KD's point and that Trump wanted to.

Wanted to deal with this at the time that he did because if it had come close to the election that would have been a problem and I I wonder if the gravity of that moment and the weight of what she was saying finally hit her and then that was kind of what prompted her uh to to break down which then the defense Katie how did they handle cross-examination.

Immediately after that do you think they had to pull back from what they might have intended no and and I think what wasn't asked of Hope hick was how much she had spoken with the defense team before she took the stand I mean there's no rule or law that prevents the prosecution or the defense it's a it's choreography it's it's a it's a.

Perfectly choreographed event that happens when you go to court if you have not met with or prepare to witness for their their testimony you haven't done your job as a lawyer I would bet my bottom dollar that at a minimum hope pick's lawyer had Communications with the Trump defense team to know what she was going to be saying when she walked.

Into that courtroom it doesn't mean Trump spoke to her but I certainly know that they knew on the defensive side what she was going to say so no they didn't dial it back and and I don't have any sympathy for her and I will stand true with this idea that I don't know why she cried and I don't really care she chose to go back to the Trump orbit.

She was treated as family she knew what he was all about in the public and the private worlds of Donald Trump and she was subpoena to appear she's not like she volunteered to show up and so in my opinion you know you you you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas I mean there is nobody with Clean Hands in this and in my opinion I don't think hopix.

Deserves any sympathy what about the thousands of Americans that were damaged by the Trump Administration and the fact that she went back to try to help him get another run at it in 2020 is ging to me and so tough stuff you had to show up hope picks but I will give her the some small modum of credit that it seems to me she told the truth and and that I.

Think was really crucial because the reaction from inside the courtroom at least was one of kind of believability because here is someone who as as you say you know went back into Trump World when she didn't have to you know clearly has some sort of loyalty still to Trump in a way because you know he was she was very complimentary of trump at the start.

Of her testimony and then for her then to make the incriminating comments that she did the incriminating testimony I think probably speaks to her credibility well listen it was suggested that I mean everything that she's achieved today she started working right out of college she went to SMU she comes back she starts working for the Trump organization she.

Owes kind of her career right such as it is she has a consulting firm now so there's a there's a level of loyalty you've got to just presume that because of what she feels that she owes them yeah she worked for PR Company you know he'll s strategies and she was repping at that point of vka so that that's her parlay into her professional life she.

Owes everything to the to the trumps and to the Trump organization and and you know it was fascinating for me to see her on the stand she appears incredibly broken I think by all of this she was very fragile um but to Katie's point you know she she got she got involved she went back you know for more and uh you know I found her testim yesterday.

Incredibly striking as he was saying Hugo because she really did go for that kill shot you know that really solidified that Donald Trump had knowledge over that payoff and that's the through line I think that the prosecution has been looking for we've been building up to this moment David pecker Keith Davidson hope PS this is.

All leading up to Michael Cohen that I think we'll get to in the next in the next couple week we have to see when that's going to happen um you guys you've both been on Mega duty today I'm going to release you here you Katie thank you so much for that not you though you got to stick around Lin but all of you can also watch Katie show of.

Course it precedes this one on Saturdays at noon Eastern Time right here on MSNBC

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