The future of Israeli-Palestinian family | Battle Zone MSC dwell debate

Hello everyone, and a very warm welcome to “Peacein Pieces: The Future of Israeli-Palestinian Relations Town Hall”. This is a special editionof Conflict Zone coming to you from the Munich Security Conference. Our conversation will beginwith the Palestinian Prime Minister. Thank you very much for your time this morning. And thenwe will open up to a high level panel who will be joining us here on the stage. PalestinianPrime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh. Thank you so much for joining us on Conflict Zonehere from the Munich Security Conference. Thank you for having me. More than 28,000 have been killed inGaza, more than 11,000 of them children, according to the Gaza HealthMinistry. Isn't it time for Hamas,.

Which many countries around the worldconsider to be a terrorist organization, to release the remaining hostages andtry and bring an end to this conflict? By all means, all our eyes are focusedon the sufferings of the Palestinians, both in Gaza Strip and in the West Bank, and whatis immediately needed is a ceasefire. And what is more needed is to allow international aid to getinto Gaza, not only one through one single entry, but through all the entries that are there. Asyou rightly said, not only 28,000 Palestinians have been killed, but also 70,000 Palestinianshave been injured. 281,000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed between partial destructionand complete destruction. But also 1.7 million Palestinians have been pushed out of theirhomes into one single geography that's called.

The Rafah area. And now the Israeli armyis intending to incursion intoo Rafah. So all what we need now is an immediate ceasefireand allow international aid to get into Gaza. Let's talk a little bit more about thoseprospects, because the PA president, Mahmoud Abbas, called on Hamas thisweek to complete a deal quickly. And I'm quoting here “to spare the Palestinianpeople suffering.” Do you think that Hamas cares what Abbas and the PA has tosay? Do you think they're listening? Our president is the president of all thePalestinians, of course. And we do care for our people, and we would like to see an end to theseatrocities. We would like to see the release of all the hostages, and we would like to see a dealthat is there in the making as soon as possible,.

Because every single day that is delayed, itmeans more killings, it means more sufferings, and it means more disaster for the people. Whenwe call for (an) end of ceasefire of course we do mean it and we have been engaged with all theinternational players, with the United States, with Europe, with everybody. In orderfor us to bring this to a reality, we have been engaged with Egypt,we have been engaged with Qatar, with all the players who have been there.Of course, the situation is catastrophic, as you rightly said. And our president wasvery direct, very explicit when he stated that. All eyes are on Rafah right now, asyou've highlighted. There's been months of speculation that the Israeli invasion ofGaza could end with millions being pushed.

Into Egypt. The latest reports are sayingthat Egypt is actually building a walled enclosure along the border. We heard fromthe Egyptian foreign minister yesterday. He said that they are preparing safe areas forrefugees. Do you know what's going on there, or are they talking with you orare they coordinating with you? Yes. First of all, Egypt is not going to allow anybody to cross the borders.Second, you are right that… Are you sure about that? Is that going to hold?It looks like they're preparing something. Yes, we are sure about that. Egypt is not goingto allow Palestinians to enter into the Egyptian territory. We don't want Palestinians to movefrom Gaza into Egypt, even though there is an.

Israeli program to really push Palestinians outof Gaza in an attempt to rehabilitate Palestinian refugees into other areas. This is not somethingthat is new. This has been there since 1954, when Israel wanted to create some sort of resettlementof Palestinian refugees out of Gaza. Remember one thing, 65% of our people who live in Gaza areof refugee origin. But the issue of the forced transfer that Netanyahu wanted to push peopleout of Gaza is still there. And having every … Israel says that they won't do that by theway, we've heard comments in the past days. We know what they are planning. They say they won't do that. Where arethese people to go? Because they are planning an offensive on Rafah. Or areyou optimistic that that won't happen?.

People should be allowed to go back to theirhomes in the north of Gaza. People should be allowed to go back to their homes in the middleof Gaza. The only way should not be out of Gaza into Egypt. The only way is that peopleshould be allowed to go back to their homes, and people should be allowed to go back to theirtowns to where they were. That, now what Israel is doing is what one can call a cattle shootexercise, pushing everybody into the Rafah crossing. That should not be allowed. I know, andwe know that it has been an Israeli program to push people out of Gaza. We and the Egyptians havebeen working hard not to allow this to happen. The Israelis would, of course, disputethat. The Israelis would dispute that. Well, the Israelis can say anything. But alsothe reality speaks for itself. We know that.

This has been the Israeli program to push peopleout of Gaza. So the most important thing for us, the international community, is to push theIsraelis to allow people to go back to their homes. This is the only thing that can happen.Not only that, but also to stop immediately the atrocities. Netanyahu has achieved nothinguntil now. He achieved one thing. He killed 28,000 people, he injured 70,000 people, and hedestroyed 281,000 housing units. This is the only thing that Israel has achieved in Gaza untilthe single minute. That's where the situation is very dire. The situation is very serious andthat everybody should be responsible for holding Israel responsible for all the atrocities thatIsrael has been conducting in the Gaza Strip. Israel, for its part, says that itwants to avoid another October 7th,.

While Hamas has slaughtered some 1,200 people onOctober 7th. There's evidence of sexual violence, rape, mutilation. I mean, do you reallythink that they would stop until they feel that the threat is over, that they'veregained some sort of sense of security?. The history of Palestine did not start on October 7th. The Palestinian sufferings startedin 1948. And this cycle of violence… Let's talk about the now, we knowthe history. There's two different versions of it. Let's talk about thenow and what happens going forward. You are asking about now, yes? My duty is tomake it clear to the audience so that the people understand the macro picture, not only the littletiny micro. Even though the situation in October.

7th has been disaster, catastrophic for everybody.And don't — we don't accept the fact that civilians have been killed. This is something thatwe totally do not accept. But, we should not allow the cycle of violence every now and then to repeatitself. The Palestinian issue has to be settled, and now it is the time that we find solutions.It is not the town— the time that we speak about processes. We are sick of the processes. Now wehave to go from the floor to the ceiling and from the ceiling to the floor, i.e. no more processes.We need a recognition of a state of Palestine and then we go into details. So the history of thePalestinian catastrophe did not start October 7th. The least— the last cycle of violence hasstarted October 7th. Yes. But before that, '67, 1982, all these sort of things, we need toput an end to this Palestinian suffering.

So then let's move then, from the prospects fora ceasefire now to the prospects for a two-state solution, because, I mean, we've seen a hugediplomatic flurry internationally. We've seen Arab states, Israel's allies, includingthe US and the UK, make this big push now to secure a two-state solution coming outof this crisis. The challenges, however, to peace are vast. The PalestinianAuthority, your organization, you're seen as weak and having legitimacyissues. Hamas is considered a terrorist organization. Just carried out the worstattack on Israel in its history. Israel, for its part, has its most right-wing governmentin history, with a prime minister who was opposed to a two-state solution quite vehemently. Are youin a position to get a deal done? How can you—.

How can you tap into the international momentumwhen you have those conditions among the parties? Let me just reflect on the points thatyou mentioned one by one. First of all, you are right that we are in a weak position. TheIsraeli army incursions into our cities and into our refugee camps and our villages, and theIsraeli army has reoccupied every single part of Palestine, one. Second, the Israeli governmenthas deducted substantial amount of our money. So we have not been able to pay salaries forthe last three months. So not only that, 700 checkpoints have been imposed in the WestBank in addition to what is happening in Gaza as well. So therefore, when we speak abouta weak situation in Palestine, you are 100% right. The Israeli army is not allowing usto function because we are under occupation.

I don't want to… Wait a minute. Wait, let me finish becauseyou asked me a question. So let me answer you. The other important issue is thetwo states. The biggest problem today is that the Israelis used to say aboutus, “they don't have a partner”. Now, I can easily claim back to your question that wedon't have a partner in Israel, our president, all of us have been extending our hands for theIsrael to sit down and settle this issue. The other important, you have an internationalconsensus on two states. Palestinians, they agree on two states, even Hamas,the international community, the Arabs, they agree on two states, the Europeans, theAmericans, everybody. We have been talking.

About two states for more than 33 yearsnow. We need to move from talking about two states to implementation of two stateson the ground. That is what we need now. I want to talk about what you can do, though,because, I mean, officials want you to start making some pretty bold moves right now sothat, you know, they have some flexibility when it comes to, you know, if a windowdoes indeed present itself. Arab states, Israel's allies, they want and I'm quotinghere, “a revamped and revitalized Palestinian Authority” that can play a role in post-warGaza. Abbas says that the PA is ready to take responsibility for Gaza immediatelyafter the war. I mean, Palestinians are tremendously dissatisfied with the PA. We've seenthe protests in Ramallah. 90% of Palestinians…

The protests were against the Israeli occupation. 90% of Palestinians want Abbas gone 90%, 90%. Wait a minute. When, does he need to go?Does he need to go quickly? No, wait a minute. First of all… How can you represent the Pal…. say that you represent the Palestinian peoplewhen 90% want your president out? You want to ask me and wait for ananswer or you want to continue talking. Yes, please. Please.

So wait a minute. First of all, we are veryaware of the fact that we need elections. And our president issued a presidential decree callingfor elections on the 22nd of May 2021, when Israel did not allow us to have elections in Jerusalem.So we were caught between the hammer and the hard rock. Shall we have elections without Jerusalem,or shall we wait until the circumstances allow one? The other important issue I did like, I dolike the term revitalization of the Palestinian Authority that President Biden spoke about. Andwhen I googled it, I realized that it means bring to life. So for us, the revitalization of thePalestinian Authority, it means one thing for me: allow us to function. Because when you havethe Israeli army incursions into the cities, the refugee camps, then the villages, and whenyou have the settlers who are carrying arms,.

22 Palestinians have been killed at the hands ofsettlers. Ben-Gvir and some other ministers in this current Israeli government had beendistributing machine guns to settlers, not to hunt birds, but to kill Palestinians. Waita minute. And then the most important part of the story is that when we speak about the Palestinianreadiness for taking over Gaza, we, there are some questions that has no answers. One, Netanyahu'sinterest today is to keep the war going. This is not my question, I haveto say, this is not my question Mr. Prime Minister, you've announced reforms. Yes, but let me finish. When are they going to happen and on what sort oftimeframe? Because you have promised them before.

Correct. When are they going to happen? Correct. Netanyahu's war is going to continueuntil the end of the year. Today in Gaza, we have 50,000 Palestiniancivil servants who are there, of whom 19,000 Palestinian policemen.We provide for Gaza $140 million every month. That's $1.7 billion dollarsevery year. That's 35% of our budget. Is Abbas going to appoint a deputy who haspower, who has authority? This is what, if if you can't hold elections,is he going to appoint a deputy? Look, the issue is not about…

Is he going to allow a caretaker as we've been hearing many internationalparties are calling for. The Palestinian Basic Law doesnot allow the president to have a deputy. Okay. The Pales…. We arepeople who are stick to the law… But it allows him to serve 19years into a four-year term. No, no, no no. We, all what we want is simplyto have elections when elections are possible. We cannot have elections for part of Palestinewithout elections for every Palestinian. Now, let's not miss the point. The issue of Palestinianreform is something that we initiated. I myself presented it to the international community.And just to answer your previous question,.

We are implementing it step by step, in fullcoordination with the international community and with full partnership with Germany, with theUnited States, with Europe and with others. Now, let's also not miss the fact that in order forthe ball to stay in our court, this is something that certain player who do not want to deliverpolitical content and then they throw the ball on the issue of reform, what the Palestinians needtoday, and maybe I should remind the audience and your people, the municipality of Nablus is 100years older than the State of Israel, so therefore Palestine is ready. We have the institutions. Wehave the capabilities. We have everything. Our serious problem is that we are under occupationand our people, they suffer. And your audience should be aware of the fact that the Palestiniansare under Israeli military occupation, and we need.

This occupation to end. It's not about reform.It's not about anything. It's about Palestinians. They are looking for one thing that's end ofoccupation and establish a sovereign, viable, contiguous state of Palestine side by side,the state of Israel. That's what we want. We have limited time. And there's onemore aspect that we need to get to here, because you have said that, andI'm going to quote you here, “we should realize that Hamas is an integralpart of the Palestinian political mosaic”. You've called on them to join the PLO'spolitical program. Where do you see Hamas's role? And do you worry that you risk alienatinginternational partners who consider it to be a terrorist organization? Israelis also, who aredeeply traumatized by the October 7th attacks?.

We all know that Netanyahu triedto buy quietness for money, and therefore he had to deal with Hamas. Andalso for us, of course, Hamas is an integral part of the Palestinian political arena. Butin order for Hamas to be a member of the PLO, there are certain prerequisites that Hamas hasto accept the political platform of the PLO, that we have an understanding on issuesthat has to do with resistance, and that we are calling for popular resistanceand not anything else. And therefore, if Hamas accepts and we have been in dialoguewith Hamas before October 7th in El Alamein… Are you speaking with them directly right now? No.

Are conversations happening? Not now. not now. But Russia … So you still speak to intermediaries? Russia has invited all Palestinian factionswho will be meeting on the 26th of this month in Moscow, and they have invited all Palestinianfactions. We will see if Hamas is ready to come to ground with us. We are ready to engage. IfHamas is not going to come to ground with us, that's a different story. But we need aPalestinian unity under any circumstances. But I mean, we're talking about Hamas here. Thisis, you know, an organization. It has a history of undermining peace through violence. They rejectthe Oslo Accords. They're committed to armed.

Resistance against Zionism. I mean, look at thebrutality of October 7th, where they slaughtered more than a thousand people, took hundreds ofhostages, the youngest being nine months old. Evidence of sexual violence, rape, mutilation.Does Hamas really deserve another chance? Look. As I told you, one should notcontinue focusing on October 7th. They've been no friend of yours either. I told you at the very beginning that no way, that no way we accept. No way weaccept any killing of any civilian, innocent people. This is something that we shouldput behind ourselves. Under any circumstances that we need to have a situation in which Palestiniansare united. But again, on our political agenda…

Is the PA so weak that Hamas is the only option? We are not going to go, we are not goingto go to their ground. We are not going to go to their ground. We want them to cometo our ground. Our ground is very clear. Two states on the borders of '67, through peacefulmeans, we have been engaged in negotiations for 33 years. Unfortunately, negotiations did notmaterialise in and into the conflict. We are now saying we need a different, serious paradigm shiftfrom talks into a resolution that United States, Europe does recognize the State of Palestineon the borders of '67, and Palestine will be admitted as an independent sovereign state, asa member of the United Nations. That is where, and then we are ready to go for elections. ThePalestinians need to be under one umbrella. But.

Of course, as I said earlier, forHamas to be a member of the PLO, there are certain prerequisites. Ifthey can fulfil these prerequisites, ahlan wa sahlan (welcome). If theycannot, then it's a different story. I would like to just briefly take it backto the situation on the ground. You're under a lot of pressure in the occupied WestBank, where there has been a dramatic uptick in settler violence. There's also beenhundreds of millions of shekels withheld in tax revenue that Israel collects onbehalf of the PA. You were talking about that a bit earlier. You've warned of therisk of things exploding in the West Bank, of impossible conditions. And, uh, how closeare you to that point right now, would you say?.

It's a very serious situation becausewhen people talk about the day after, we talk about the day after, not for Gaza only,we talk about the day after for all of Palestine. What is the point of handling issues in Gazaand things might explode in the West Bank, as you rightly said? Today Israel is launchingfour kind of wars against us: land confiscation. There are 755,000 Jewish settlers who are livingin the Palestinian territories. Most of them are armed settlers. 700 checkpoints, as I told you,a wall surrounding Jerusalem and separating Palestinians from Palestinians. And as you rightlysaid, Israel is deducting substantial amount of our taxes that Israel collects on our behalf. Sothis situation is very serious and that is that needs serious handling. There are members in theIsraeli government today who does not want to see.

Us, not as a state and not as an authority. Andthat is where the problem is. The problem today, for the first time, you don't have a partnerin Israel to sit down and talk to. When you don't have a partner, then there is no process.Therefore, you need a third-party intervention, Europe, United Nations, United States, Arabcountries to come up with a solution and that has to be agreed upon in order for us to comefrom the ceiling to the floor and not continue trying to build walls that we have neverreached the ceiling for the last 33 years. Even before the war in Gaza and October7th, the vast majority of Palestinians said that armed struggle is the mosteffective means of ending the Israeli occupation. We've been talking a lot aboutdiplomacy here. We're here at the Munich.

Security Conference. But this sentimentamong Palestinians, does it worry you ? Palestinians, they want a solution.We tried armed struggle from 1965… They're frustrated. They are very frustrated, of course. Notonly frustrated, Palestinians are angry. Palestinians are frustrated. Palestiniansare starving. There are 9,000 Palestinians are in prisons. There are thousands ofmartyr families. Israel has arrested 6,000 Palestinians since October 7th untiltoday. Today we have 9,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons, humiliated under impossibleconditions. So therefore, they're not only frustrated, they're frustrated. They areangry. Wait a minute. They are frustrated..

They are angry, but they want a solution. Ifwe tried armed struggle from 65 until 1988, it did take us to a certain extent. Thenwe adopted a different strategy that we are ready to sit down and negotiate peace withthe Israelis. It did take us another step. We created the Palestinian Authority. Now this peaceprocess is not ending the conflict. We need a serious paradigm shift in order for us to reallyend the conflict. That is where the Palestinians, my dear, listen to me. Jesus Christ wasborn in Palestine. We know what he said. Let's not go back to Jesus Christ. It is not, it is not with bread one lives only. Listen, I want to know more about the mood of yourpeople. And then we have to, we have to end it.

The Palestinians need independence, thePalestinians, they need end of occupation. And the Palestinians, they need to live free.This is what, where you end the frustration, you end anger, you end, you end violence.That is how you end the conflict by giving people their rights — it's not by lookingat cosmetic things. We need to look at the roots of the issue, not only at the symptomsof the issue. That is where, and the roots of the problem for the Palestinians is end ofoccupation. That is the name of the game. Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh,thank you so much for your time. Thank you for joining us on Conflict Zone here from from theMunich Security Conference. We appreciate it. Thank you, well done.

All the best to you. Thank you very much. So everybody I've been told the Jordanian foreignminister is going to join us in a minute. Thank you so much for your time. We're going tocontinue our conversation now with our panel. Again, this is “Peace in Pieces: The Future ofIsraeli-Palestinian Relations”, the town hall here at the Munich Security Conference in conjunctionwith Conflict Zone. We are joined by Tzipi Livni, former foreign minister of Israel. Thank you foryour time. Ayman Safadi is going to be joining us in just a moment, the foreign minister ofJordan, we are joined by José Manuel Abalos Bueno, foreign minister of Spain, and Mélanie Joly,foreign minister of Canada. Welcome to all of you. Thank you for your time, and thank you. As we waitfor the Jordanian foreign minister to join us:.

Tzipi Livni, I'd just like to get a very briefcomment from you at the beginning. Will Israel launch an offensive in Rafah, or will it listento its allies and calls, call for restraint? Firstly I think that it's a pity that MohammedShtayyeh didn't wait to listen also to what we have to say. And maybe the best thingfor, I don't know, next conference is to have all of us together on the same stage.I don't want to enter into the blame game, but there are certain things that need tobe addressed. And this is about history. Since he referred to 1948, so let's speak aboutit, because in 1947, the international community in the United Nations decided on what is calledthe Partition Plan: two states, one is a Jewish state, Israel, and the other is an Arab state.He spoke about history. And I, I mean, I cannot.

Let this situation to be a distorted history. Andtherefore, since that day, unfortunately, at that time, the Arabs, later the Palestinians, didn'taccepted the ideas of the international community. I was the chief negotiator for peace in the lasttwo rounds of negotiations. They were quite, I believe, just solutions on the table that theydidn't— they didn't say no, but they didn't say yes. And I'm saying it because I represent thosein Israel believing that the idea of two states for two peoples represent the Israeli interest.I believe that this, in achieving peace, it's not only about security, but also the way to preserveIsrael as a Jewish democratic state. And therefore it is so important not just to enter into ablame game, but to understand history and to try to reach a solution for the future. And lastcomment is that in Gaza there was no occupation..

Israel decided… Hi. Hello Ayman. Israeldecided to leave Gaza Strip. We dismantled the settlements. We pulled out our forces. We hopedthat the Palestinians will use this opportunity to create something that their own people will behappy inside Gaza, flourish— and Hamas took over. Just very briefly, I just justto kick off our conversation, do you believe, I mean, you've worked withBenjamin Netanyahu. Do you believe that there will indeed be an offensive thatextends into Rafah, just very quickly? I don't know, but … Yes or no? This is a yes or no? I think that if oursecurity needs are, and I do support it,.

To dismantle Hamas from its militaryinfrastructure and hopefully to replace Hamas with a more legitimate and pragmatic regime,the Israeli army will take the necessary step, including taking in consideration internationalhumanitarian law, as we need to. The absurd is that we called Palestinians to leave their homesnot in order to expel them, but in order to save their lives because they are being kept as humanshields by Hamas, and therefore the situation is complicated. Yes, there are Palestinians thatare suffering there. But the real question is how all of us can lead to a better future andnot end this war in Gaza as another round. Because I was a minister in the Israeli securitycabinet in the last rounds of operations in Gaza, one we thought that deterrence would be enough,the second we thought that any understanding with.

Hamas — I didn't support it because I think thatHamas would be delegitimized — but I would advise all of us to do what we decided on the firstround of negotiations with the Palestinians, that it's not about blame game or history,but about finding a solution. And since you've mentioned Netanyahu, I'm his own politicalopponent for many years. You know, he put, he tries to convince the Palestinians that Fatahand Hamas are the same. And my policy, my strategy for many years was to make a distinction betweenHamas, because how Mohammad Shtayyeh said that Hamas accept two states, but they don't accept theidea of end of conflict, which is more important, or it goes with it and therefore he enters intothis trap. The only way to achieve peace is by an understanding that the choices be not,is not between Israelis and Palestinians,.

But between those that want and arewilling to take also, of course, political risks and other to achieve peace onboth sides and just entering to a blame game or calling the international community,give us a state. This is not helpful. Ayman Safadi, I'd like to get your responsefirst of all, to what we have heard. Mr. Foreign Minister, by the way, welcomeand thank you for joining us. You know, we've been discussing all eyes rightnow, really being on Rafah. Jordan and Egypt have been quite clear that theywill not accept any forcible transfer of Palestinians. Egypt appears to be building anenclosure on its border. The foreign minister of Egypt addressed this yesterday. Do you thinkthat your stance can still hold strong on this,.

Given the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza andthe talk of a military operation extending there? Well, I mean, we should not be responsible forcleaning Israel's mess. And before I address that, we gotta frame things in the rightperspective. What we see in Gaza is, is a devastating war. Mass murder, destructionof the livelihood of 2 million people, pushing people to the abyss, destroyhospitals, killing journalists, killing medics, killing humanitarian workers.And we've got to frame things in the right, in the right context. The root cause of all ofthis is occupation that has had no horizons of ending. That's being consolidated day and day out.Look at the number of settlements in terms of the growth that we've seen over the past few years.Look at the situation before October 7th. What.

Did we have before October 7th? We had a completeclosure of political horizons. We had a government that that includes radical racist ministers whoopenly call for the killing of Palestinians. They call them human animals. They don't respect theirrights. And we had a process in which this Israeli government tried to sell the fallacy that it canjump over the Palestinian issue to have regional peace and ignore the Palestinians as if theydo not exist. Look at facts and figures. What did we see before October 7th? Look at thenumber of settlements, confiscation of land, suffocation of the Palestinian economy, encroacheson the holy sites. And the political narrative that was coming out of that Israeli government isone that closed all horizons even before October 7th. This current Israeli prime minister was onthe record saying that his mission is to suffocate.

The Palestinian people's aspiration for statehood.October 7th, we all condemned the killing of Israeli civilians. On October 7th all the Arabcountries did that. But I have yet to hear… How should Israel have responded to that? I have to yet hear one Israeli official condemningthe killing of 30,000 people in Gaza. 75% of them are women and children. We are a country thatmade peace with Israel 30 years ago, but we made peace within the context of a broader peace thatshould allow for regional conditions that will ensure safety, security, dignity for all people,for Israelis and Palestinians. But Israel cannot have security unless Palestinians have security.We all cannot have peace unless the Palestinian people have their legitimate rights to statehoodand freedom and dignity fulfilled. This seems to.

Have been pushed under tons of layers of ignoranceand acting as if Palestinians did not exist. So let's frame things right. We have a conflict.The root cause of conflict is an occupation that is a violation of every human rights that exists.There was no horizons for this occupation to end, and now we're just looking at things as if theonly problem is that there is something calle an occupation that has to end.We in the Arab world since 2002, have said that we're willing to have full,normal ties with Israel in return for ending the occupation and the realization of aPalestinian state. Israel did not even consider that. And this is the questionthat we have. On the issue of displacement it's an absolute no. We will not allow for thedisplacement of another thousands of Palestinians.

Is that also what your Egyptiancounterparts are saying? Yes. I think Jordan and Egypt have been…? Even despite the building of the enclosure? About that displacement is not acceptable. It's aviolation of international law. It's a war crime. But beyond that, it will solve nothing. It willjust set the stage for further conflict. One last sentence, whoever wants peace, we cannot justkeep speaking. In the macro. The path to peace is known. The two-state solution, the realizationof a Palestinian state that can live in peace and security with Israel. Every other talk aboutpolitical horizon or about peace is, I'm sorry, it's ignoring the issue, and it's assumingthat you can continue to control the lives.

Of 5 million people and deny them every humanrights and say, I want peace. How's that possible? I'd like to turn to the Spanish foreign ministerright now and get the EU's and the Spanish views here, because you are among the EU countriesmost critical of the rising death toll in Gaza and Israel's occupation there, operationthere, excuse me. You have paused arms sales, we understand. How do you see the prospectsfor de-escalation and ending the conflict? Everything that we are doing and saying aimsat de-escalation. This escalation of violence will lead nowhere. I don't see any politicalvision behind all this violence. And there is a real risk of a spillover beyond Gaza. We seewhat's going on in the West Bank. We are very, very worried for a very fragile already Lebanon.So basically, I think we all know what is needed.

To get peace and security for both the Palestinianpeople and the Israeli people. We take very seriously the security concerns of Israel. Whenwe call for a permanent ceasefire, when we call for the immediate entrance of humanitarian aid,which is absolutely needed in Gaza, given the catastrophic humanitarian situation where wecall for the immediate release of hostages, all those things are and go in the benefit ofboth of them, the Palestinians and the Israeli. But there's a lot of tension rightnow between Spain and Israel. I mean, they withdrew their ambassador. I will address that. Several timesin history, both the Israelis and the Palestinians have agreed about thetwo-state solution, the real implementation,.

A Palestinian state. We all know that that's thereal formula that will bring peace and security for both of them. So let's see this tragicopportunity and let's make it. And that's the sense of our peace conference. Israel is afriend of Spain. Nothing of what we say or what we do goes against Israel. So our relationship,we try them to be as good as they have always been. But we are not lower our voice inthe defense of the civilian Palestinians. Okay, Mélanie Joly, I'd like to turnto you, Foreign Minister of Canada, and perhaps you can also give us the internationalperspective, as well as maybe the North American perspective as well. How much influence doyou see the international community have, having on bringing an end to this conflict?And should countries be taking tougher action,.

Bringing tougher pressure to bear,for example, things, you know, like what the Spanish are doing, withpausing arms shipments, for example. Um, well, I'll give you, what I'm seeing atthe international level. And now my new best friend is Ayman because we speak to each othereven on Saint Valentine's night. But also, I'm in contact and I was in contact withPresident [inaudible] yesterday. I'll tell you, the international community's vision and atthe same time, Canada's point of view. So, Sarah, what we need now is a hostage deal. We needthat because that's the only way that we can get humanitarian support. Up to 500 trucks a day fromKarem Salem and Rafah. And from there there will be a momentum to get to a sustainable ceasefire.Violence must stop. I think we all agree on that..

And when we had the last truce in November, wesaw that things calmed down. The pressure in all our country calmed down. I must say, in Canada,the politics of this is extremely difficult. And that's creating tensions, more anti-Semitism, moreIslamophobia. It's there's lots of tensions in our community. So what we want is a hostage deal,it's a humanitarian aid. This will then permit the work on a grand bargain, which is for too longwe've been thinking, and particularly the left, center left, which I'm from, we believein a two-state solution. And wait, wait, wait, let me just finish and I'll get to. Sowe believe in a two-state solution. And then the right was much more into normalizationof relationship with Israel. Let's, you know, let's make sure that there's a securityapparatus for the region. But the reality,.

Sarah, right now is we have an opportunity tobring long-lasting peace to the region. Why? Because we have to put the two together. Therewill be no security for the Arab world and for Israel if there's no normalization and dealwith Saudi Arabia and a two-state solution. What more pressure can the internationalcommunity, though, bring to bear? And I'd just like to acknowledge the EU foreignpolicy chief is sitting in the front row here. Yeah, Borrell is in my ear right now. And I'm going to quote you, Josep Borrell,if you don't mind, because you said this in the past week. You made this thinlyveiled call on the United States to cut arm supplies to Israel due to the highcivilian casualties in the war. You said:.

“If you believe that too many people arebeing killed, maybe you should provide less arms in order to prevent so many peoplefrom being killed”. So is there a point there? There's two things. We believe in the right ofIsrael to exist. That's fundamental. It must be able to exist in peace and security. We alsohave a foreign policy all about human security. We're Canada, that's what we believe in. Andthe protection of civilians has been at the core of everything we've been doing. So of course,right now this is difficult balance. And on Rafah, we were absolutely clear this is unacceptablebecause Palestinians have nowhere to go. But at the same time, we need a Israeli governmentthat is willing to talk about the two-state solution. At the same time, we need the Arabworld, and I know Ayman has been working a.

Lot on that on a PA reform. And Sarah, that wasyour conversation with the Prime Minister just beforehand. And we need at the same time towork on normalization of diplomatic ties and therefore a security deal with Saudi Arabia andIsrael, and eventually also the recognition by other states in the region of Israel. So if wecan get there and I think, you know, this would be a beautiful vision, we could have a differentMunich Security Conference next year. But time is of the essence. We have a couple of months.Netanyahu cannot just continue to wage his war. You have been in the center of negotiations,Tzipi Livni. You support a two state solution. You're also I mean, you're in Israel.You see the trauma of October 7th and the population is traumatized. There is noappetite right now for a two-state solution,.

Or at least very little appetite. And so, youknow, and this is our final round of questions, by the way. So I just like everybody to to perhapshave a last little final word here before we open it up to questions from everybody else. Yousaid that it will be difficult to convince Israelis to support peace, to support atwo-state solution. Do you see any hope? Yes, I see hope. It is true that Israel isunder trauma. All of us, also personally. This kind of horrors you mentioned. And thank youfor that. The hostages, they need to be released because they were taken. These are crimes againsthumanity. But speaking about two states or future, there is also a need to understand that also onthe Palestinian side, there are those supporting the idea of two states for two peoples. We didn'treach an agreement, but they represent aspiration,.

Legitimate aspiration of the Palestinians for astate. Hamas does not. Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist, and therefore those thatare speaking now about eternal peace with Hamas, they don't understand the nature. It's not just aterrorist organization for some freedom fighters. Gaza Strip could have been free if they hadrenounced violence. We left Gaza. We didn't want to be there. We don't want to control thePalestinian life. And therefore, for those of you here that not just, you know, speaking interms of slogans, but understand the complexity of the situation. Also on the Palestinian side,there are those that are obstacle for peace, and Hamas is the main obstacle. Not only a terroristorganization, not only jihadist group, not only a charter that speaks about killing Jews or Israelisliving. And this is what they did not only.

Promised to have more massacres in the future ifthey remain, and therefore and therefore the— and as I said, I'm a political opponent on Netanyahu,but I support the war in Gaza. I support the strategic need to eliminate Hamas as a terroristorganization and as a regime, and hopefully just to give one hopeful sentence, I know thatthere are negotiations now, the US, the Saudis, hopefully Jordan and Egypt, the PA. If this— andthis is something can get a grip on, there's a need for us also in human rights to understandthat the outcome of this can be secure. And I'm speaking about those supporters of two states,not all the Israeli support it, or not all parts of this government. But yes, for us, we needto understand that it brings security. That is, we have a new security structure in the regionwith the Saudis, with Jordan, with others. And by.

Having that and there are change on realities alsoon Gaza. And this hopefully can make a change. Ayman Safadi, I'd like to ask you, firstof all, for your response. Second of all, can you take us into some of these negotiationrooms and tell us, um, particularly what regional players might be willing to provideto get a deal done? Because, you know, for example, earlier this month, you met withyour counterparts from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, and Egypt in this big meeting in Riyadhthat we've been hearing so much about. We've been hearing one of the plans discussed, youknow, might provide security assurances, additional security to Israel, for example.What is potentially on the table to move not only from a cease fire, but maybe alsoto a two-state solution, possibly also.

To another normalization agreement with SaudiArabia and Israel in the region, for example. Thank you Sarah. I mean, first of all, I think the key thing is that this war has toend. This murder has to end. This. This, this, this, these war crimes have to end. That'sthe number one. That's the bottom line. And what happens after? I'll come to that. But for now, nothing canjustify the continuation of the destruction of the livelihood of 2 million people. Nothingcan justify attacking hospitals. Nothing can justify killing 12,000 children. Nothingcan justify making 17,000 children in Gaza orphaned. This is unacceptable by any standard.Israel has crossed every moral, humanitarian,.

Legal law that there exists. That's number one.Number two, again, we've got to frame things right. It is unacceptable again, to keep beatingaround the bush and not to recognize that the problem is with Israeli politics, that Israel doesnot want to recognize the right of the Palestinian people to exist. Not only are they saying that,but they're doing everything that will render the two-state solution unviable and in fact, speak tothat. Again, look at how things have evolved over the past ten, 15 years. Every horizon for peacehave been blocked by Israel. Dehumanization of Palestinians have continued. Uh, there's there'snothing left to give to the, to the Palestinians. That is, that is a fact. And we have to acceptthat. And when we talk about Hamas, what about the settler terrorism on the West Bank? When settlersgo rampage Palestinian village…kill, kill…

We put them in jail. No, they're not in jail. No action has beentaken. No significant action has been taken against settlers. Actually, settlerswere armed by Israel. And they go, yesterday settlers killed, killed Palestinianchildren. So we have to call things as they are. The root cause of the problem is thatthere is an occupation that the Israeli government is not willing even to admitand recognize, and this government…. What's on the table from regional players? I'll tell you that. What's on the table is a fullpeace. That is the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002, and it's still on the table. Full normal ties,full peace, full acceptance. But that cannot.

Happen without ending the occupation and givingthe Palestinians their rights. We cannot solve the conflict unless we realize we recognize thatthere are 5 million Palestinians under occupation whose lives are totally hostage. Talk aboutGaza now and the hostage deal. Israel is taking 2 million Palestinians hostage in Gaza. And I'msorry, Israel did not end its occupation of Gaza. Legally. Gaza was still occupied. We say, okay,Israel get out of Gaza. But they besieged their borders. They besieged their skies. They deniedthe entry of any, anything into Gaza without, without the permission of Israel. And they say,we freed Gaza. Gaza was an open prison even before October 7th. Gaza was besieged. Now,in the last ten days, do you know that only 43 trucks were allowed into Gaza of supplies. Andthose trucks were not distributed because Israel.

Killed the police escort that was protecting thosesupplies. So people are starving. 500,000 people in Gaza right now are at the highest level ofstarvation. Gaza is facing famine. So we have to recognize that. Talk about incitement. Who'sinciting now? When the deputy speaker of Knesset says, “we want to burn Gaza.” What's on the table?Again for the hostage deal, by the way, I'm sure you heard the Qatari prime minister, whoeverwants a deal does not walk away from negotiations. Israel walked away from negotiations. Everybodyknows that the first offer is always a maximalist offer. But you go for the first round and thenyou agree to send a delegation, and the next day you decide not to send a delegation. So thatalso shouldn't be. I personally believe that this current Israeli government does not want ahostage deal, does not want this war to end. It.

Wants to continue with this war because it wantsto change the political view of the Palestinians. We have to open it up to allow people in the room. One the table again, is full peace in returnfor ending the occupation. And that's the only way to guarantee the security ofIsraelis or Palestinians. And again, we want a region at peace. We want Israelisand Palestinians to live in safety and peace. But that can only happen if both peopleshave their rights addressed. The Arab Peace Initiative spoke of full Arab guarantees forIsrael security. Israel has to do what's right and has to recognize that the Palestinians have aright to statehood, to freedom. And they are not human animals. They are, they, they're peoplewho deserve to live in dignity and freedom.

We're going to open it up to one commentfrom the audience. If people can just sort of raise their hands right now, we haveto keep it very quick. You're probably seeing the time our panel nearly over. AyeletHarel, Women Wage Peace, I'd like to ask you, please, if you can keep your question oryour comment to three sentences or less. I'll try. Okay. I'm honored to represent WomenWage Peace, Israel's largest peace movement. Women Wage Peace in partnership with our Palestiniansisters from the West Bank, Women of the Sun movement, has been advocating tirelessly for adiplomatic process with women's participation that will deliver peace, security, equality andhope for both sides. Since the catastrophic attack on October 7th, Israelis and Palestinians haveexperienced unimaginable pain, suffering and loss.

Of life of thousands of children, men and women.One of them is our co-founder, Vivian Silver, that was murdered at their house at KibbutzBe'eri on October 7th. As women, as mothers, we bear profound responsibility to fight, firstof all, for the release of Israeli hostages, to end this war and to help the humanitariancrisis in Gaza. After years of the world deprioritizing this conflict, we see this crisisas an historic opportunity for change. However, we cannot afford to fail, as previous attempthad two fatal flaws. First, there was, they were too narrow, with the United States leadingon its own, rather than creating a multilateral process that enabled both sides to work with acontent group, from Europe, United States and the moderate Arab world as real stakeholders innegotiation. Second, they were too shallow. It.

Involved only leaders, mostly men, talking toeach other behind closed doors, with no real engagement of civil society in general andwomen in particular. We, as a member of the Alliance for Middle East and network of 160Israeli-Palestinian civil society organizations demand to be engaged in any process toward peace,and who could persuade and convince their scared and traumatized society to participate andto deter the extremists. Now my question. Thank you. Okay. It's unusual that I applaud. Thank you. What lessons are you willing to learn.

From past mistakes to ensure the successof the next diplomatic push? Thank you. There was one interjection here. Andplease, you know, three sentences or less. Question for Tzipi. Is there any faction within the Palestinian leadership thatbelieves in Israel's right to exist? You should have asked MohammedShtayyeh, but I believe so. Yes. Which one? There was somebody here. Okay, I'll wait until I get a… Um. Yes, please.

We'll answer all the questions together. Good morning. My name is Ilan. I'm Israeli,former ambassador to South Africa and now a peace activist. My question is to theinternational community. I think it is high time for you to change course and getinvolved in our conflict with the Palestinians, because the discrepancy, the disparitybetween Israel and Palestine is far too big for us today to do it by ourselves.I hope you will take it as a message. You could just pass the microphone behind you. Yes. Oh. Thank you. Um, I'm from China, a journalist withthe CGTN. I do have two questions. First one,.

I want to go, you know, the world has witnessedthe unprecedented scale of death and a, sorry, destructions in the Gaza area in the past fourmonths. I wonder, how do you guys believe Israel's military operation in the Palestinian areawould leave Israel's international reputation to the world? My second question relatingto China, how do you see a possible role to, for China in a potential long-term peaceprocess, between the Israel and Palestine and particularly in the post-war Gaza and theWest Bank? And what could China bring to such a process that maybe the Western countrieshave not been able to or could not? Thank you. Can I answer that? It's you.

I just want to quickly point out, I rememberlast year in the town hall when we were talking about the new Middle East and the opportunitiesthat would come. I remember asking the question that could there be a vision for peace withoutthe Palestinian question being resolved? And I think as we sit here today, we should be remindedof the fact, if we were to look, we have divided this world into algorithms. The Palestiniansand the Muslim world is only looking at Muslims, at Palestinians as being traumatized. The priceof one Israeli life to Palestinian has already been put in the international market, as one is to30, and we are still only allowed one side of the globe to only feel the trauma of Israeli livesand the other side. So it's, I just want to ask you actually the question, because when you wereconstantly, you know, asking the Palestinian prime.

Minister about reform, about their governancestructures, it felt to me like, what if you were to maim a person, tie their hands, almost injurethem, then throw them in really high currents in the waves and ask them why are you not governingproperly? This is what, in some ways the State of Israel has been allowed to do to the Palestinianpeople over the last 60 years. And then the questions are asked. So I think that simply Iagree with the Jordanian foreign minister and I think every Arab leader. And let me please commendthe, you know, Mr. Josep Borell also, because anyone who is out of the algorithms of tribalismand only be able to see the trauma of one side. So in order to get credibility, let me just say,I think everybody in the Muslim world almost has condemned what Hamas has did. The Muslim worldis, however, waiting for people in the Western.

World to condemn Israeli atrocities. Being astate does not give you impunity to, you know, to go against every principle and just to end bysaying that, look, there is the rules based order, there is the ICJ, there is the United NationsSecretary-General. And what is unprecedented about what is happening in the world vis a vis— just last thing — is that each one of them is speaking loudly and clearly as to what the worldneeds to do. It's just that we are not listening. Okay, there was a question righthere and right here in the front corner. And again, please, please,just a question if you would. Okay. Good morning. Thank you everybody, Maha Yahya,the director of the Carnegie Middle East Center in Beirut. Two question. One small comment. Youwere, Your Excellency, you were equating the,.

Freeing the hostages with humanitarian support forPalestinians. That's a violation of international human rights. The hostages have to be freed.Absolutely. There's no question about that. But the humanitarian support for Palestiniansshould not be held hostage to that. So I think that humanitarian aid should be allowed into Gazato people that are starving without worry. I mean, without it being held as part of a broader deal.The question, I mean, maybe you want to comment on that. The second question, just very briefly,is on the two-state solution. Everybody is talking about the two-state solution. Oslo was aboutthe creation of a two-state solution that 20 years later, we're nowhere near that. In fact,where we've gotten very far from that. When the Oslo agreement was done, we, there were around,I think, 250,000 Israeli settlers in the West.

Bank. Today we're talking about 750,000, withbypass roads. Palestinian regions are now the, at the time the talk was it was a Bantustanwith small Israeli settler pockets in the West Bank. Today it's the other way round. It'sthe small Israeli, uh, Palestinian enclaves within a much larger Israeli networkof bypass roads. So the question is, how do we do with that? How do we deal withthat? And what are the steps if the two-state solution is what we want to achieve, whatare the steps, moving backwards from that, that will get us there. And what'sthe time frame we're looking at like? Everybody's final thoughts andperhaps a response to one of those questions. Choose the one that youwould like to answer. We're officially in.

Overtime. I want to be respectful alsoof everybody's time today. We'll begin with Mélanie Joly. Yes. And again,if we can all keep it concise and… So, I don't remember what… Ayelet was referringto Vivian Silver. Vivian Silver, who created her organization is an Israeli-Canadian woman who waskilled on October 7th, and she believed in peace. And, you know, I think there was a very sad ironythat she was part of the people that were killed by Hamas on October 7th. I believe that everysingle civilian lives, Israeli and Palestinian, are equal. And I think that this, this conflicthas had proportions that are unacceptable. But I really believe, Sarah, and having spent so muchtime with Ayman, with Faisal from Saudi Arabia, with Tony Blinken, there is way more peopleagreeing at the international level on what needs.

To be done and way more interest in puttingpressure. The problem we have is we don't necessarily have dancing partners right now, andI think that is why the most preoccupying thing right now, which would allow the right politicalmomentum, is a hostage deal and humanitarian aid. I agree, you mentioned. It needs to be goin. We've increased our humanitarian aid. It's catastrophic what's going in Gaza. We just cameout with a very clear statement with Australia and New Zealand about it. But I really think thatwe need to put pressure on Netanyahu. We need to do the difference between Israel and the Netanyahugovernment as well. We need to make sure also that we have allies in Israel to put pressure also onthe Netanyahu government. And, and that's his job. And we will support Ayman and Jordan and the kingand all the Arab states. We need a reformed PA,.

Because right now, Hamas has too much legitimacyin the eyes of Palestinians that are too much suffering right now. So we need to be ableto help them, to offer them, the people, a new generation of young Palestinian leadersthat will be at the table to create this state. Mr. Foreign Minister, your final thoughts? It's very clear that the hope of the Palestinianpeople and the security of the Israeli people are completely interlinked, and we cannot escape tothat. And the hope of the Palestinian people has a name, a Palestinian state, a realistic Palestinianstate. And that means Gaza and the West Bank and the one single Palestinian Authority connectedby a corridor with an exit to the sea and with its capital in East Jerusalem. And what wehave to do is to help that. So for today,.

For today is the immediate release ofhostages and the permanent ceasefire, but for tomorrow, not for after tomorrow, fortomorrow is the Palestinian state. It's the only way in which both of them will have peace,security and the whole Middle East stability. I would be remiss if I didn't ask the EUforeign policy chief if he perhaps wanted to add a comment following his countryman,and give us a little bit of insight on the EU. 00:41:07 Josep Borell: I'm afraid not. No. Okay. No comment from Josep Borrell.Okay. Tzipi Livni, okay, your final thoughts. I just want to follow what you tried to show,the complexity of the situation, because Mohammad Shtayyeh spoke about '67 lines. You are speakingabout one Palestinian state with the corridor..

This corridor didn't exist in '67. And, youknow, as you know. So I'm trying to say that the complexity of the situation is more than just theslogans that some are using. But I need to give an answer to a, to a question that I'm being asked.And this is the question about, you know, a toll of that. I mean, they've killed, butchered 1,200.What is happening in Gaza in terms of numbers is higher than that. And the real way for those if wewant to judge it in a moral and legal perspective, and I would like, I'm not asking the world to turna blind eye to what, to what Israel is doing in Gaza, but judge us in according to your own moraland legal justice and legal system, because the loss of life for Israeli and Palestinian.I mean, it's the same. We are not speaking about the nature of the grief. It's awful.But here you have those that target civilian.

Deliberately targets killed, raped. This is whothey are. Israel is a democracy. We are trying to avoid civilian casualties. I was in the Israelicabinet. I know how it works. So I'm not saying that you cannot ask questions or get the answers,but to make this comparison, it's immoral. You cannot compare these terrorists that are lookingfor children to kill, to an army that tries to avoid civil casualties. And to your question aboutwhether or not all the Israelis are the same, not all the Palestinians are the same. You can findin Israel those supporting peace, supporting the idea of two states and those that are completelyagainst it, as you know. And they, some believe in greater Palestine between the river to the sea.Same in Israel, those believing in Greater Israel, between the river to the sea. I hope, and this isthe only hope for Israelis and Palestinians alike,.

To find on both sides the leadership thatunderstands that the best option for their own people is to find the way forward and toacknowledge the legitimate rights of the other side. And therefore, I'm using not just the wordof two states, but two states for two peoples. That gives an answer to national aspirationof different peoples. I negotiated peace during these negotiations. On the other side, therepresentatives of the PLO, Fatah, accepted the existence of the state of Israel. We didn't reachunderstandings on borders and other things. But I would like to say, since it was asked about, soabout mistakes. In 2014, there was on the table an American paper. I think it was just and fairto the Palestinians as well, and unfortunately no answer was given. So sometimes the choice between0 or 100% of what you want gives you a zero. And.

I hope that both sides would understandthe nature of compromises that are needed. Mr. Deputy Prime Minister. Thank you. Look. First of all, Palestinianshave rights and we cannot just keep talking about Palestinians having hopes andaspirations. They have rights. Those rights are embedded in international law.Those rights are embedded in humanitarian law. The rights of the Palestinians to existin their own state —independent, sovereign, on June 4th, 1967 lines with East Jerusalemas capital — is something that that is the only way to move forward. And it's not slogans,it's reality. And if we want to talk about what existed and what did not exist in the past, Ithink we'll be having a different conversation..

Let's look at the future. The future that weseek in the Arab world is a future of peace for Palestinians, for Israelis, for everybody. To havethat Israel's legitimate concerns for security and others should be addressed. The Palestinians'right to freedom and statehood must be addressed as well. That's number one. Number two, we cannotcontinue to talk about what's happening in Gaza, as if it's something that you could just lookat and glance at and move over. No. There is, there's a catastrophe happening in Gaza. Innocentsare being killed. Israeli army is killing children in Gaza. It's killing women and childrenin Gaza, it's destroying hospitals in Gaza, destroying schools in Gaza. And that has tobe recognized. The Arab world did recognize the trauma of October 7th. Israel has yet torecognize the trauma that has been brought on.

Palestinians day in, day out. Every day, hundredsof Palestinians are being killed. In Gaza and, by the way, on the West Bank, do you know thateven before October 7th, 2023 was the bloodiest year for Palestinians in over decades? That'sbefore October 7th. The number of Palestinians killed on the West Bank is the highest in decades.That is the policy of this Israeli government, which again, has ministers that openly called forthe killing and destruction of Palestinians. So that's the thing. So to move forward, I think wejust need, this war has to stop and the world has to stand up to its responsibility. There shouldbe consequences. And again, to your question about reforms and others, the whole world nowis saying the only path forward is a two-state solution. The whole world is saying humanitarianaid should be allowed into Gaza. The whole world.

Is saying civilians should be protected, andIsrael has done none of that. And ask any Israeli, Israelis will only tell you what they don't want.Tell us what you want. Do you want the two-state solution or not? So I think that's how we framethe conversation to move forward. Again, the war has to end and we need to start, implement, aplan that would realize a Palestinian state and that would only will be the only guarantee of afuture of peace for Palestinians and for Israel. Unfortunately, we have to leave it there. Andapologies to everybody that we've we've run over time. That concludes our panel. Thank youso much for our panelists and for all of you. Yes. Thank you so much. The situation is

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