UK Could presumably simply tranquil Ranking “As Many” Asylum Seekers “As Is Valuable”

K Storer wants to do various different things including uh deploying MI5 to combat the channel migrant crisis and indeed uh involving uh a deal with the French and other European nations let's have a little uh listen on a watch of what he said to Sky a little bit earlier on this is about flights to Rwanda Flagship policy of this government which.

Kier starmer opposes no there'll be no flights every flight that takes off carries with it a check to the Rwanda government I want to scrap the scheme so that means the flights won't be going there will be no flights scheduled or taking off um after the general election if labor wins that general election so you'll actually cancel flights no.

Flights taken off if you win I think the scheme is a gimmick I'm not flogging a dead horse I'm not going to prepare I'm not prepared to do government by gimmicks I want to start on day one not with flights taking off okay by by by absolutely investing my political cap government no flights take off under here starma government from day one no.

Flights no Rwanda scheme it's a gimmick it's very expensive it won't work although we are K ster being very very clear on that he also says he wants a new border security command funded by scrapping the Rwanda scheme uh hundreds of specialist investigators would be there from the National Crime agency border Force the crime prosecution.

Service MI5 immigration enforcement he wants a a new partnership with europool the sort of European wide Police Service new intelligence sharing networks new counterterrorism powers to allly officers to conduct stop and searches at the Border close bank accounts Trace movements shut off internet access of people Smugglers and a rules-based.

Asylum system with FastTrack reforms an enforcement unit and a returns agreement with the EU that doesn't exist at the moment that's causing that's the root of all the problems really with h France or major part of the problems anyway certainly in regard to Ireland as well they want to give migrants or would be migrants back to the UK let's see what.

Luis calie who's director of Asylum matters thinks about this Louise you're very welcome to the program good evening to you do you think this plan will work um I think it depends on what working looks like um in terms of uh will it stop IR regular migration will it stop the boats uh no uh because the only thing that's going to stop the.

Boats is to open up Visa access open up safe Alternatives and that was really lacking in Labor's announcement today um and I I think actually what it's going to do is essentially what they're proposing to do is terrorize terrified people further you know lots of talk of you know as you said MI5 uh using Terror legislation and.

And different approaches and that sort of enforcement what that's going to do is actually increase Channel fatalities we've seen a 450% rise in deaths at our border over the last 12 months and that's directly linked to some of the Hostile measures that we've been funding through uh those border controls so um different uh Beach.

Deterrents things like that what it's doing is it's driving the risk levels up people are making um more difficult embarkations of boats uh Beach scrambles um larger uh smaller boats with large amounts of people in it uh so all of those things are bad news when it comes to uh stopping the boats which is seems to be the thing that's got really the.

Political rhetoric behind it so yeah I I don't think these are going to work um until we have Visa access why should we have Visa access do you think uh I mean making there are safe and legal routes that do exist uh there are sorry no there are there are nine of them there are nine of them they do exist there are in.

Theory safe routs but in reality you can't access them that's why You' got we're taking in plenty of people from UK and Louise um we we've done that that is a safe and legal route or has been a safe and legal route there's been a safe and legal route sorry just let me finish there's been a safe and legal route from Hong Kong there's been a safe and legal.

Route from Afghanistan those have existed in the past and nine of them exist at the moment that is a fact so Peter that is you you're right to say about Ukraine Visa scheme and you're right to talk about the Hong Kong bno scheme and that's precisely why you don't get Hong Kong BOS or Ukrainian people in small boats the Afghan.

Resettlement scheme does not work you cannot get access to that scheme there is a absolute catastrophe unfolding in Afghanistan and people are trapped in that there even the people that we've managed to get out of Afghanistan and are waiting for their documents from the British government in Pakistan and now getting pushed back from Pakistan to.

Afghanistan and that's why you've got so many people from Afghanistan in small boats there is a direct Corr but but if they're coming to France Louise sorry with respect if they're coming to France first that is a safe country why do they need to take the risk I'm not blaming anybody for I don't want any I don't hold on I don't want anybody to die on.

The channel but I also don't understand why they have to come to the United Kingdom I've never understood this because France is a safe country why should they stay why should everyone stay in France because it's I mean what what the argument is that they're coming to the UK because it's a safe country we should.

Have a migration system in this country which is fair and reasonable I'm sure we both want that Louise but at the same time people arriving by boots are arriving here illegally they're taking huge risks which I don't want them to take I don't want anybody to take those risks to to come across in those boats with a risk of death and they are taking.

Those but not because they're fleeing persecution because France is is a safe country they're not fleeing persecution in France Louise it's very it's it's a it's a question that has been well asked and well answered in in in in in all of the media rounds on this Peter you know as as well as I do that France take three times as many Asylum Seekers into.

Their system than we do in the UK why should we turn around and say we're not accepting any refugees I'm not saying we shouldn't accept refugees we've accepted load of refugees we're a very compassionate country and we need to sort out we need to sort out the system but just let me finish but what I'm saying Louise is that they are not.

Fleeing persecution in France that is that is it is they're not being persecuted in France refugees don't get access to the VIS scheme I've explained that to you and that's why you've got refugees in small boats the overwhelming proportion of people making why do they have to come here I don't understand that Louise I don't think it's been well.

Answered at all they don't they don't all have to come here they don't you're implying that everyone wants to come here and no one wants to stay in France three times as many people stay in France and come to the UK well that's fine but why not why I mean can I finish Peter four times as many people stay in Germany I'm trying to answer your.

Question four times as many people stay in Germany three times as many go stay in France three times as many stay in Spain UK has less than 1% of the refugees in the world these are tiny numbers contextually we have one of the fewest Asylum claims per capita in Europe I asked you the question why should you keep saying that everyone.

Should stay in France I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm saying I'm saying I don't see why they have to come from France I I I'm not saying they she St in France because they have family here Peter the vast majority why risk your life on a small boat it doesn't it doesn't make sense it is because you can't get Visa access we can keep.

Looping back if you can't get Visa access and you have family here just because someone has family in a country I have family in Australia that does not mean that Australia should accept me as a person if I want to go and live there no but you're not a refugee are you Peter you have you haven't fled a civil war but but but you're not fleeing a.

Civil war if you're in France France is not at a state or any other anywhere else and you are if you are in in Afghanistan all right take a case that I'm supporting at the moment there is a lad stuck in Palestine that has lost his whole family he has an uncle in the UK his uncle wants to reunify with him so his uncle wants to understandably a.

Child without their family alone in a war zone wants to arrange for safe travel for that child to reunify with him in the UK and he can't do it that is the reality Peter that is the reality of people I don't I don't want children to be in war zones Louise I want them to be safe but I don't understand but I don't understand why we.

Have to take all of the people of the world why there doesn't have to be any restriction why there doesn't have to be any I'm not saying you're necessarily arguing for this but there are people who argue that we should take anyone who wants to come here the levels of migration are factually far too high for this country we've accepted lots of.

Asylum Seekers and refugees if you make an asylum claim in this country you have more than a 70% chance of that Asylum claim being accepted you don't because the Asylum system is closed Peter they closed it the Tory government closed the Asylum system effectively de facto the unhcr has described it as an asylum ban in the UK so the Asylum system is not.

Even open anymore we have got a raft of anti-refugee legislation and policies in this country and what it has delivered is higher deaths at our border more chaos in our Asylum system at huge cost to our taxpayers and it is breeding a massive catastrophe in human slavery and exploitation within the UK with people having to leave the Asylum system.

Because they're not getting status that is the reality of the situation no one is saying that at the UK should be taking everyone what we are saying is there should be Visa access for people that have good reason for needing to be in the UK which are a minority of people and constantly there's this wave well we can't take everyone why can't they stay.

In France they do stay in France we're not saying we want to take everyone we're saying that there are good reasons for a few people to need to be here and we need to provide them with safe it's not a few people though as it contextually it is a very few people as I've said to you historically we've taken less than 1% of the world's.

Refugees it is a very few people contextually and we just need to grow up and get a grip you cannot keep everyone out of the UK and by trying to do so you are creating an irregular migration problem because you won't give them Visa access if you want border control then people have to have safe access to that border control otherwise you will drive.

An irregular migration crisis which is what this government is doing Lise I want to put a couple of thoughts of our viewers and listeners to you Damian has been in touch on Twitter and says Peter you're quite right Luise doesn't seem to believe in borders Britain has accepted lots of refugees but we can't even look after them our public services are far.

Too overrun Henry says why does Louise think every single migrant coming over is genuine we know there are a large numbers who aren't fleeing uh and are just economic migrants perhaps I can put those points to you Louise did I say either of those things did I say that we should be taking everyone did I say so what is a level you'd be happy with.

Louise what what number of migrants should be take each year I think that what we should be doing is having Fair access to an effective Asylum system and that Asylum system should be making decisions about who needs to be here and who doesn't have a a refugee convention threshold of needing to be here that's not really groundbreaking and it.

Shouldn't really be a ridiculous suggestion to say that there should be safe roots to access an efficient Asylum process none of that is saying open the borders what is driving as I've said border crisis that you guys are constantly concerned about is the fact that you won't give people safe access and so that's driving high levels of.

Irregular migration if there was safe access as you put it if there was fair access as you put it we and we had a Visa scheme and there was a a scheme that meant that anybody in the world for whatever reason could apply to come to the United Kingdom what level of migration do you think is acceptable what number do you think we should take.

Every year of both refugees and of economic migrants or migrants you want to come here for whatever reason I think there's been quite a lot of economic studies around the broader migration uh debate um and I I would defer to them around aspects of the economy and but I know that there are Workforce shortages in many industries that we could be.

Looking towards a more balanced discussion around migration and that's the thing Peter we're talking about a more balanced discussion around migration that acknowledges that people move and that's okay we've always always had people moving to the UK and every time we've had new waves of migration there has been a oh my God we're Lo.

We're losing our country we're losing our culture and we never have we've Embrace migration it's made us stronger it's made us richer it is an inextricable part of our country's history I think there'll be a number of years in listeners who would disagree with that but I just want to ask you for a third and final time how many people.

Do you think we should take into the UK each year that's it's a Glo it's a global you're asking me on the spot to give you an answer surely you must have thought about this luig you're direct director of Asylum matters I mean maybe I can ask you about Asylum how many Asylum Seekers do you think we should take every year as many as are necessary.

As many as are necessary as many as are necessary what if what if there were a million people who wanted to come to the UK and said they had an asylum claim you think that that would be a necessary number do you there are 28 million refugees in the world and last year we had around 60 or 70,000 Asylum Seekers but if we check as many as were.

Necessary in your view there would be a lot more than that would or not Louise let's start with treating the people that are claiming Asylum here fairly let's open the Asylum system because as you said you know 60 70,000 context of 28 million is nothing the vast majority of people as I have explained stay in other European countries around 72% of.

Refugees stay in their neighboring countries to the countries that they come from so statistically when you st back and look at it we are talking about a very small figure contextually we know that the vast majority of refugees don't seek sanctuary in the UK around n over 99% of people don't want to come to the UK so you know we're not talking about.

Millions of people we're talking about tens of thousands of people as much people that go and watch a football match at Old Trafford on a Saturday we can do better than this Peter Michelle is in Middle sex and has giv me a ring on 0344 4991 th000 Michelle you've been listening to this interview what do you think of what Louisa said to be quite.

Honest Peter I'm really very angry I mean I know how many people should think we can take in our Island we are not as fig as every other country in the world that is taking migrants um we can not afford to take any more into this country we are an island we we haven't got the the infrastructure and we we can't take.

Anymore uh okay thank you Michelle for that point Louise how would you respond to that it's just it's just incorrect um we we uh don't have the level of infrastructure that we need because government isn't spending the money in the right areas the government has crashed our NHS so why is Michelle not not correct then she's saying we don't.

Have the infrastructure that's there I was just explaining that government haven't invested in the infrastructure that we need so Michelle is correct not not because of people claiming Asylum here we're talking about a small amount of people um government hasn't built the accommodation the hospitals the schools the NHS for.

Existing population I think we I think we agree on that Louise I think we I think the three of us probably agree why that that's that's that's suddenly that's Asylum Seekers fault that we don't have that but Asylum Seekers would be more more if if they are to the degree that you want them to come into this country which you've said is as.

Many as is necessary essentially I'm not quite sure what necessary means but if we have far more than are here already or even let's say a third more than there are already that will put more pressure will it not on those already stretched resources and that's why many people who pay their taxes who want access to the NHS who want a a place in.

School for their children who want a house for example will say immigration levels both legal and illegal both involving Asylum Seekers and not are too high and that we do not have the capacity to te them that is the argument Louise I I I I just don't agree with the argument because ultimately migrants contribute massively towards our economy.

They pay huge amounts but you just said a second ago that we don't have the infrastructure that the infrastructure is not there just finish the point that I was making please migrants contribute hugely to to us financially through the Visa health health care sech charges that they have to pay for they massively.

Disproportionately work in our NHS they work in our schools they work in Health and Social care without those levels of migration we have a substantive issue in those Industries uh the so the vast majority you talked about people coming on visas and migrants generally are coming on working visas and they are paying Tax.

Plus their health care s charges I think the vast majority of people in this country want a government that invests in everyone that builds Health Care builds schools builds houses our government doesn't do that that is not the fault of 60,000 Asylum Seekers but the point remains does it not that if you bring in more people you're going to.

Put more pressure on that system where wherever they come from whatever their backgrounds are whatever the reason for being here that is just a fact is it not so what what happens then is you you effectively de facto close the borders which is what we've done close the Asylum system we're not we're not closing the borders there were we have.

We have no we haven't there are sorry that's that's just not correct in in term that there's an argument certainly in regard to Asylum but in regard to closing the borders as you put it there was a net increase in people in this country of 745,000 people last year of legal migrants and government have just rolled out a raft of anti-migrant.

Policies and approaches including reducing Visa rights to family members massively increasing uh Visa fees and the the the the income closing the borders we have de facto closed borders that is not correct Lise that is not correct can I just finished sentence we have the facto closed the borders to refugees which is why they can't access.

Visas so when you do that when you take those anti-migrant approaches again it drives irregular migration you can't you so it becomes cyclical the more you try and enforce your borders and by closing routs of migration down the more you will drive irregular migration the more you will get people in lorries in trains in boats this is a a a reductive.

Conversation because what you're doing and the and and the policies that that the government are putting forward is driving the irregular migration crisis that we're seeing I'd rather have calm measured policies that acknowledge the reality that people need to move invest in everyone's infrastructure because there is plenty of room in the UK Rwanda.

For example has a much more densely populated country than we do um and the the the our figures are based on per capita per capita we take some of the lowest Asylum rates in Europe those are the facts

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