What Putin’s persisted rule in Russia means Ukraine and the enviornment

AMNA NAWAZ: Today, in Moscow, President VladimirPutin declared his intention to advance deeper into Ukraine and issued new threats againstthe West, one day after he secured his fifth term in office. It was an election with no suspense, the outcomeof which was preordained. Here now is Nick Schifrin. NICK SCHIFRIN: In Moscow tonight, a celebrationand coronation. Tens of thousands in Red Square mark the 10thanniversary of Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea and the man who many call the czar. Last night, Vladimir Putin declared victorywith supporters, some who weren't alive when.

He was appointed president in 1999. He will soon surpass Joseph Stalin to becomethe longest running Russian leader since Catherine the Great. VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian President (throughtranslator): People came to create the conditions for internal political consolidation to moveforward for development and the strengthening of their fatherland, Russia. NICK SCHIFRIN: Putin's nearly 88 percent ofthe vote and record 77 percent turnout made this a Potemkin plebiscite, especially sinceat least one city offered voters a chance to win expensive Western electronics and anotheroffered motorcycles and even apartments.

And Putin has launched the harshest crackdownon dissent since the Soviet Union. Putin critics say the country has moved fromauthoritarian to a dictatorship. But some Russian voters, especially thoseold enough to remember the chaos of the 1990s, say Putin symbolizes a successful effort tomake Russia great again. IRINA IVSHINA, Resident of Vladivostok, Russia(through translator): I am interested in what is being done now. And I would like it to be continued and evenimproved, because the younger generation must live in peace and harmony. NICK SCHIFRIN: Putin'scritics call that propaganda.

And voted with gasoline and a match, including one woman who lit her own ballot after writing:”Bring my husband back.” Those who believe the ballot was already spoiledan entire box. And others wrote in one name, Navalny. Alexei Navalny, the country's leading oppositionfigure before he died in mysterious circumstances in prison, had called for Russians to protestby all voting at the same time. And they showed up for Noon Against Putin,as seen on this video posted by Navalny's team, strength through numbers. That included expats in Berlin, where Navalny'swidow, Yulia, who'd echoed her husband's protest.

Call, waited for six hours to vote. For Putin, Navalny had been he who must notbe named until today, when he said he was willing to include Navalny in a prisoner swap. VLADIMIR PUTIN (through translator): On onecondition only, I said, so he doesn't come back. But things happen. There's nothing you can do about it. ALEXANDRA PROKOPENKO, Carnegie Russia EurasiaCenter: Even before the elections, we knew that the numbers, that there should be morethan 80 percent people who vote for him.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Alexandra Prokopenko is withthe Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center and was the adviser to the Central Bank's deputy governorbefore leaving to protest the Ukraine war. She says Russia's economy is unhealthy, buthas avoided failure despite Western sanctions, thanks to Chinese and Indian willingness tobuy Russian oil and massive military spending. ALEXANDRA PROKOPENKO: Next 12, 18 months aredecisive for Ukraine from the pure military standpoint. In terms of this time frame, Putin has enoughmoney to finance the war, to continue and maintain lavish payments on population on– during this timeline, and probably to keep inflation moderate.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But there is nothing moderateabout Putin, who gets another turn to continue the policies that define his Russia, a nationat war with freedom and its citizens. Joining me now is Fiona Hill. She was the senior director for European andRussian affairs on the National Security Council staff during the Trump administration. She's now a senior fellow at the BrookingsInstitution and the author of “Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin.” And Evgenia Kara-Murza is advocacy directorat the Free Russia Foundation, which seeks to promote a free, democratic and peacefulRussia.

Her husband, Russian opposition politicianVladimir Kara-Murza, is a political prisoner in Russia. Thanks very much to both of you. Welcome back to the “NewsHour.” Evgenia Kara-Murza, let me start with you. What's your assessment of how the electionwent, as well as the calls for protest, the Noon Against Putin that we saw people in someparts of Russia, but also across the world? EVGENIA KARA-MURZA, Advocacy Director, FreeRussia Foundation: Well, first of all, thank you for the invitation.

And as to the election, so-called election,I don't think that this process that took part in Russia over three days can be calledan election, because it has nothing to do with a democratic protest that is called electionin any normal democratic country. This was Vladimir Putin reappointing himselfyet again for the fifth time, as the president of the Russian Federation, in violation ofmany international laws, and having completely destroyed the Russian Constitution throughthe so-called referendum in 2020, which basically made him into its czar forever. So, this process, I don't believe that itcan be considered and accepted as a legitimate process by the international community.

And I definitely call on the internationalcommunity to call Vladimir Putin for who he is. He is a dictator and a usurper, and a criminal,actually, wanted by the ICC, definitely not a legitimate leader of the Russian Federation. NICK SCHIFRIN: Fiona Hill,was this a reappointment? And is Putin a dictator? FIONA HILL, Former National Security CouncilOfficial: Well, it's definitely a re-anointment, because it's not just being a dictator, but,as Evgenia has said, he's almost a self-styled czar at this point.

And, in fact, these are the people that heassociates himself with in Russian history. In terms of his legacy now, we're all talkingabout how he will be — been in office longer than Catherine the Great, certainly any ofthe other previous czars. And if he, in fact, extends his term againbeyond this current six-year, after 2030, after 2036, he will have been in power longerthan Stalin. So I think that those legacies, even thoseterms, tell you enough. NICK SCHIFRIN: Evgenia Kara-Murza, what'sthe point then? Why go through this stage-managed process? What is the Kremlin benefit?.

EVGENIA KARA-MURZA: Well, to create this imageof universal support of the Russian population of Vladimir Putin and his policies, both domesticpolicies and the aggression against Ukraine, because a lot — this regime depends a loton this image, on this very warped image of reality. And this is why the call for the Noon AgainstPutin, because this was the only way the Russian population was able to show how many Russianswere actually opposing these policies, because there are no free and fair elections. We understand that, whatever we put on thoseballots will be counted differently. And, of course, there was no surprise in VladimirPutin's winning, maybe in a little bit in.

The fact that he gave himself over 87 percentof the vote, which is — I mean, he could be slightly more modest. But, no, he had to go that high. And these results were called unprecedentedand record by the Russian authorities. So the only way for Russians to actually showwhat they think of it was to come at the same time, at noon, to polling stations and seehow many of us there are actually in reality. NICK SCHIFRIN: Fiona Hill, was Noon AgainstPutin successful? FIONA HILL: Look, I think it was symbolicallyvery important. We will have to see how we judge success overtime.

But the very fact that there was signalingthat people were dissatisfied, in the only way that they could, given the repressiveconstraints on them, is very important, because there were certainly hundreds of thousandsof people. We saw hundreds of thousands of people turningout for Alexei Navalny's funeral, and not just on the day of the funeral, but on thedays afterwards. NICK SCHIFRIN: And doing so despite knowingfull well they could be arrested. FIONA HILL: Exactly right, knowing they couldbe arrested. And, also, people that turned out, in fact,to sign the forms for the possibility of an alternative candidate, Boris Nadezhdin, toalso run against Putin, who, ultimately, of.

Course, was disqualified. NICK SCHIFRIN: Was not allowed, right. FIONA HILL: But all of this is very important,because the people who have the courage to do these small acts of defiance are also standingin for, let's just say, all of the other people behind them who just don't have either thewherewithal or are too frightened in fact to show their dissatisfaction. So I think we can say from this that it isn'ta monolith that Putin is presiding over. And it's 87 percent of what? NICK SCHIFRIN: Hmm.

Let's turn to the future. Does Putin use 87 percent, does Putin useanother election to rule differently, either domestically or internationally? Fiona, I want to start with you. FIONA HILL: Well, it's certainly going togive him confidence. And I think we're going to see him use thatexternally as well. It's the second-year anniversary, or justthere afterwards, of the full-on invasion of Ukraine. And Ukraine itself was also supposed to havean election coming up.

So I would just predict right now that Putinwill use the very fact that he's been re-anointed as the czar from here to eternity, at leasthis eternity perhaps, to make the case that other elections are not being done in thesame way, that there's a lack of legitimacy in Ukraine. NICK SCHIFRIN: But he's long since questionedother elections. He's long since questioned whether there canbe any democratic process anywhere. Does he use this electiondifferently specifically, perhaps in Ukraine, or with Joe Biden as president or with the U.S. elections?.

FIONA HILL: Yes, specifically to make thepoint that we all have to deal with him, and that we should be considering him and hisposition and the importance of Russia as an actor when we think about our own policies. So he's definitely going to use this for allhe can. NICK SCHIFRIN: Evgenia Kara-Murza, what doyou think is the state of Russia's opposition today and how Putin will or will not treatit differently moving forward? EVGENIA KARA-MURZA: Well, the reason thereis so — such harsh repression in the country, the reason there are these mass arrests, detentions,and et cetera, the reason we have hundreds.

And hundreds of political prisoners and hundredsof thousands of Russians and — being forced out of the country is because this is thealternative. FIONA HILL: Right. EVGENIA KARA-MURZA: This is the alternative,and Vladimir Putin is doing everything to completely annihilate this alternative, sothat the world is left to deal with him alone. And this is why I believe it would be so importantright now for the international community to do everything to show support and solidaritywith those Russians who represent a vision for a different Russia, for Russia, democraticRussia, a normal country, a European country that understands and respects the freedomsand rights of its own citizens and lives in.

Peace with its neighbors. I just understand that, for as long as VladimirPutin remains in the Kremlin, there will be warmongering and there will be repression. And those two things in Russia have alwaysbeen interconnected. Internal repression always leads to externalaggression. And this will go on and on for as long asthis regime is allowed to survive. NICK SCHIFRIN: But, Fiona Hill, is Putin isolatedinternationally? It seems like he has tactical help, certainlyon the battlefield from places like North Korea and Iran.

He's getting oil purchases from Iran. And there is a strategic top cover, if youwill, from Beijing. How isolated is he or not, and where doeshe go from here? FIONA HILL: Well, that is an issue for usto contend with. And I think it's actually a difficult one. We have to be honest about it. And it's something that we have to keep workingon as well. And I think part of the problem that we alwaysface, again, is questions about our own electoral system, which we're right in the middle ofright now, also showing insufficient, I would.

Say, dedication and resilience when it comesto dealing with foreign policy. And the key for thinking about the answerto this question is how we basically conduct ourselves at this particular point. Now, by we, I mean the United States. NICK SCHIFRIN: So, you think the best thingthat the U.S. could do is actually strengthen itself? You think that's… (CROSSTALK) FIONA HILL: That's right, and also strengthenits relationship with its allies and partners.

And that's not just with European countries. It's also with countries like Japan, SouthKorea, Australia, New Zealand. There are a whole host of countries, includingcountries like India, that have somewhat ambiguous relationships with Russia, that we need tokeep reaching out to and trying to kind of push back against the threat that VladimirPutin poses, not just to — domestically in Russia or to Ukraine, but to the larger worldsystem that many other countries have benefited from. So that's the challenge for us. And Putin's thrown that challenge down.

I don't think we should give up hope, becauseI do think that that signaling from inside of Russia that Evgenia has talked about showsthat it isn't a monolith inside of Russia and there are vulnerabilities. And, actually, he is quite isolated domestically,right? I don't think he even knows himself quitehow much support he has. But people around him will know how many ballotsthey stuffed. They will know how many people they bussedout or forced to vote. And, eventually, if he shows any kind of weaknessinternally, there might be another reaction. We have already seen that with Prigozhin andthat episode several months ago.

And we have seen it with the outpouring ofemotion and support for Alexei Navalny. NICK SCHIFRIN: And, Evgenia Kara-Murza, yourhusband, of course, has long been fighting for some of the changes that Fiona is talkingabout. He's in prison. How's he doing? EVGENIA KARA-MURZA: He's doing as well ashe can. He's — he still sounds — well, sounds. I haven't talked to him since last summer. But, in his letters, he is optimistic, andhe sends us words of support.

But that's what Russian political prisonersdo, amazingly. They are the ones mistreated. They are the ones denied medical care. They are the ones in solitary confinement. And they say about Russia — about the hopefor a different Russia, and about that hope living on even after the murder of AlexeiNavalny. They say that Vladimir was able to addressus during a recent court hearing. And it happened right after Alexei's murder. And he said that, of course, he was absolutelydevastated by what had happened, and this.

Was not the first political assassinationin Russia's history. But he also said that we cannot give in todespair, because this is exactly what they want us to do. And we need to fight even more. And this is what we owe to our fallen comrades,to continue the fight to make sure that Russia does become what they fought for and diedfor, a normal, European, free, democratic country. So, Vladimir sitting in this solitary punishmentcell in Western Siberia sends us words of support and encouragement.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Evgenia Kara-Murza, Fiona Hill,thank you very much to you both. FIONA HILL: Thank you.EVGENIA KARA-MURZA: Thank you.

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