Just 2 days after the traumatic events of Saturday's mass stabbing in Bund Junction another major event unfolded in Sydney on Monday night this time a bishop was stabbed in a church in the city's West yesterday New South Wales police declared the event a terrorist act and called for calm after angry crowds injured police officers and.
Damaged Vehicles following the stabbing we're going to look at what happened what actually constitutes an act of terrorism it feels like we haven't done a podcast episode without a warning in a number of days but uh as with the previous material that we have spoken about this podcast will cover some disturbing events so if you think that.
You're not in the right head space to listen we'll be back again tomorrow so Sam news broke at around 7:30 p.m. on Monday night of another Sydney stabbing it was almost unbelievable to consider that in matter of days we were having another conversation about a stabbing in this city I almost didn't believe it when the headlines came across my phone.
And the events that unfolded were incredibly disturbing can you begin with what actually happened so Zar yeah we got the news at 7:30 um that at about 7:10 so 20 minutes earlier on Monday night police were called to the Christ the Good Shepherd Church in wakeley and that's near Fairfield in Sydney's West and they were responding to reports that.
The church's Bishop who is a man named Ma Mari Emanuel and others had been stabbed during the service and when police got there they found two victims with non-life-threatening stab wounds and a 16-year-old boy who had been restrained by members of the congregation he was transported to hospital and arrested and when I was.
First alerted about the incident I did what I normally do what you normally do and jump straight onto social media and that's where I saw some really harrowing footage of the stabing itself uh and the reason why it was filmed from you know a Fronton angle in its entirety is because the bishop streams a lot of his services he's actually a big deal online marari.
Emanuel himself has about 100,000 followers on YouTube his church has about 200,000 followers and marari Emanuel goes on religious podcasts as a guest and some of those interviews have as many as 1.5 million views so he's a big deal and he's very well known in Sydney's Assyrian Orthodox Christian Community and we really got a sense of.
The size of the community and the anger with the scene that developed very rapidly outside the church so we first found out and we first got notified by police that something had happened and then you texted me like M minutes later saying oh my god there are now riots it's it's escalating really really quickly talk me through that well in.
That first statement released to Media by police they were commenting on the public order situation that was unfolding outside the church so almost immediately after the stabbing large crowds started to gather outside the church and concern seems to move to anger quite quickly and that anger started to be directed towards police.
And paramedics the crowds began to hurl objects at police officers a number of police officers were injured and a number of police vehicles were seriously damaged there's some photos of you know Windows being smashed in by bricks and that kind of thing and that led the police to declare a public order incident now from social media footage.
From outside the church it appears those that had gathered were calling for the perpetrator who may have still been in the church at that time to be brought out to them there was also some concern that there would be retaliatory attacks at other religious institutions in the area including some mosques now thankfully that does not appear to have.
Happened I don't want to draw any comparisons between what happened on Monday night and what happened on Saturday in bond Junction but just from a news Gathering point of view one thing that was very different about this event was that it happened late at night and that um what we understand is that the government response and the police.
Response occurred then in the early hours of Tuesday morning what happened during those crisis talks well this timeline of how the night developed for New South Wales Premier Chris mins the police commissioner and all of their advisers and agencies we learned of those late night talks in a press conference the next morning in a moment.
The New South Wales Police Commissioner will speak about this investigation and her decision at 135 a.m. to determine that this was a terrorist act and investigation that decision was validated by the minister for police at 1:44 a.m. with her contacting me at 2 a.m. this morning the important bit clearly is that this was designated as a.
Terrorist act and this was later supported by ao's Chief his name is Mike Burgess who spoke from Cambra with the Prime Minister later in the morning uh we support New South Wales government and the police for calling this a terrorist incident it does appear to be religiously motivated but we continue our lines of Investigation now the a.
Chief there said that it appeared to be religiously motivated and the incident has since been called as you said an act of Terror I do think it's important to recognize some of the parallels um and of course they are very different incidents but some of the parallels between what happened in bonai Junction and what happened on Monday night they.
Were both stabbings both appeared to be directed towards a particular group of people one's been called a terrorist Act and the other hasn't why the first thing to say is that we're still learning a lot of details about both events so I think that needs to be taken into account when covering this story but there clearly was enough evidence on.
Monday night's attack in the church for authorities to declare a terrorist attack hours later and it really does lead us into a discussion about what exactly a terrorist Act is um which we've already spoken about this week on yeah and Mike Burgess was actually point blank asked this question in the press conference here's how he defined a.
Terrorist Act and why authorities could relatively quickly identify that one was a terrorist act and one wasn't simple answer there is to call it a terrorist attack you need indications of um well information or evidence that suggest actually the motivation was religiously motivated or ideologically motivated in the case of Saturday that was not the.
Case in this case the information we and the police have before us it would indicate strongly that that is the case and that's why it was called an act of terrorism so the important point there is this idea of a religious motivation and if we then compare his answer with the legislation and dive into the law here the criminal code spells it out in.
A slightly more expanded way than Mike Burgess by saying a terrorist Act is when a violent act satisfies two different parts the first part is the act is made with the intention of advancing a political religious or ideological cause and the second part is when the ACT causes either death serious harm danger to a person or members of.
The public so obviously y this is an ongoing investigation it's still early days but what but it was very early that they did call it so exactly and it does seem that the attack at the church on Monday night meets the criteria of having a political religious or ideological motivation and that the 16-year-old in the incident on Monday.
Night did indeed make the tests Associated yeah I think this has been a really challenging part of this this new cycle and certainly I think of being on social media for the daily o I think we've seen a lot of comments calling on us to label things a terrorist act or not a terrorist act and I do think that conversations like this are really.
Important to highlight that it's certainly not up to us uh to be declaring something under the criminal code as an act of Terror uh you know you can rightly or wrongly criticize how that legislation looks and the the parameters that are there um but I think it's important to note that there is a clear definition that is being followed.
When it comes to the designation of these acts yeah and I really appreciate how hard it would be for all of us to get our heads around two events happening so close together both traumatic in nature one has been classified as a terrorist act the other hasn't um but as you're saying there is a legal framework around this so in that.
Case what do we know about the 16-year-old who will presumably end up being charged under terrorism laws well we don't know a lot and I think something to remember here is because of his age we might in fact know yeah we might in fact know less than we normally do about somebody in his situation over the age of 18 we know that he remains.
Under police guard in hospital after undergoing surgery for injuries to his hand and New South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb told media that he was known to police but he wasn't on any terrible watch list then about Midway through yesterday the ABC came out with a story saying that the 16-year-old was currently serving a good.
Behavior bond for a knife crime after an incident at a Sydney train you just clarify what a good behavior bond is a good behavior bond is basically a sentence given to you by the court where you're allowed to stay in the community uh almost on your last warning uh and before jail exactly if one more thing is to happen there's some pretty serious.
Consequences so he was serving a good behavior bond for a knife crime yeah so most good behavior bonds are in the realm of 12 months they can be longer or shorter he was serving a good behavior Bond after a knife crime that happened in November he was on bail between November when the crime happened and January where he appeared in court and.
Then he was given that good behavior Bond now the other thing that authorities have told us about Monday night is that it is believed at this point that he was acting alone we'll be back again tomorrow with hopefully some brighter news um until then look after yourself and have a good day
So the girl decides the stabbings of many ladies and kids is NOT a dismay attack, however the stabbing of a non secular chief is? No longer clear what agenda is being developed with that differential.